Posts by David Haywood
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Nicky McCreanor,
I can put you in touch with Bill – spoke to him relatively recently and I know where he is.
Thank you, Nicky -- much appreciated!
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Lynley Chapman,
Thanks, Lynley! If all else fails, I believe the main library in CHCH has the roll available – so I can check when I next visit the ruins.
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Connection between W.H. Wynn Williams (the solicitor who paid the £20 to Mrs E.A. Williams) and the Alington family.
In July 1888, Wynn Williams was acting as solicitor to Herbert Alington (GH Alington's brother).
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Some information on Rev Holland (one of the signatories to the adoption letter)…
13 August 1889: He was at St Paul’s, Papanui beginning an 18 month appointment.
22 July 1891: He was lecturing in Ashbuton to raise funds for Rakaia church. (So probably appointed to a position there by this date).
8 October 1891, he was visiting All Saints Church, Methven (this is just before Eileen Winter Coleman was born).
By 1892 his residential address was listed as Rakaia in Wise’s directory (while based in Rakaia, it seems his parish included Methven, Ashburton, Barr Hill, etc).
In April 1891 there is a connection with Alington (Star , Issue 7143, 21 April 1891, Page 3):
St John’s, Barr Hill. The annual meeting of the parishioners was held on April 16. There was a moderate attendance. The Rev J. Holland, curate of Rakaia, presided. Mr Alington, minister’s warden, read the statement of accounts, which was considered very satisfactory. The curate reappointed Mr Alington as his warden, and the parishioners re-elected Mr D. Hurst. The following were elected vestrymen Messrs J. Spooner, A. C. Maxwell, Mills, S. Hurst, Chapman and Urwin. It was decided to carry out some necessary repairs, also to procure some new seats and to have the ground put in order.
Note that Alington re-appointed. I believe that this may be W. Alington who had already performed a similar role in Burnham. At any rate, there was a definite connection between Rev Holland and the Alington family.
Rev John Holland raw location data follows:
* Wises’ Directory 1886: Kumara
* Star , Issue 6077, 5 November 1887, Page 3: Rev John Holland at Saint Matthew’s
* Star , Issue 6271, 22 June 1888, Page 3: Rev J. Holland at CHCH Cathedral
* Press, Volume XLVI, Issue 7270, 28 March 1889, Page 6: Rev John Holland is hospital chaplain
* Star , Issue 6527, 22 April 1889, Page 4: St John’s Rangiora
* Star , Issue 6622, 13 August 1889, Page 3: Rev. Holland appointed “in charge” of Saint Paul’s Papanui “for next 18 months”
* Press, Volume XLVI, Issue 7432, 26 December 1889, Page 4: Rev J Holland at Saint Paul’s Papanui* Ashburton Guardian, Volume XII, Issue 2412, 22 July 1891, Page 3: The Rev John Holland lectures this evening at St. Stephen’s Schoolroom [Ashburton] on his life m the East. Indies.
* Star , Issue 7289, 8 October 1891, Page 3: Rev J Holland, All Saints Church, Methven* Wises’ Directory 1892-93: Rakaia
* Electoral roll Selwyn 1893: Holland, John, Rakaia, Clerk in Holy Orders, residential* Electoral roll Selwyn 1896: as for 1893
* Electoral roll Selwyn 1900: as for 1893
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to SteveH,
I forgot to mention one of the more compelling factors: “Malvina”. Searching for “Mary Webb” in the 1861 census returns 2198 records. “Eliza Webb” gives 612. But there is only one “Malvina Webb” (though there are other potential matches such as “M Webb”). Genealogists love obscure names!
Cracking!
Though in an odd co-incidence there was a Malvinia (note extra 'i') Webb in Christchurch, living on Webb street very near to the Colemans (she appears to have been no relation to Malvina Webb). Malvinia Webb married Robert Ewing McDougall of the CHCH Art Gallery fame.
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Lynley Chapman,
The 1893 Electoral Roll for Women(such a useful resource!!) finds:
Eliza Ann WINTER, Domestic duties, Caledonian Rd, St Albans
Amelia COLEMAN, Domestic duties, Webb St, St Albans
Winifred B ALINGTON, Dom duties, Methven.
I don’t know ChCh – would Eliza have been a neighbour to the Colemans?
Hi Lynley, the link to Amelia Coleman, Webb Street, in 1893 is the one bit of the puzzle that I haven't been able to double-check.
Amelia doesn't seem to appear on the Christchurch electoral roll 1893 that I've been checking -- although there may be some reason for that (a late enrolment, etc.). She does appear at that address in 1896.
Do you think you could post a screenshot (or just a screen photo) showing Amelia at that address 1893? Then we'd have all the bits of the paper-trail in one place.
My apologies for being a details-obsessed engineer/scientist type...
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to SteveH,
The ages are slightly out but that’s not uncommon. For Susan I believe the 1871 census age is incorrect (probably 36 was incorrectly transcribed as 30); the 1861 census has her age as 26 and her death record has it as 87 in 1921 so those two both match the shipping record pretty well. John’s age matches, Susan’s occupation matches, and the missing father matches. The other missing daughters are explained perfectly by the other shipping record. Also the ages for both Annie and Minnie are out be the same two year margin. Overall I’m pretty convinced it’s the right family.
Spectacular, SteveH! And I certainly agree with your logic. I think we now have a complete paper trail linking Susan Webb with daughters Mary Ellen and Eliza Ann, and thus to Methven and Caledonian Road.
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to SteveH,
I think this almost certainly rules out any close connection between Eliza and Thomas Frederick.
The 1887-88 Wises’ Directory shows a William Winter, labourer, just across Caledonian Road from Thomas Frederick Webb – possibly this William Winter being the unpleasant husband of Eliza?
The 1894-95 Wises’ Directory still shows William Winter at that same address – so possibly the father of that same William Winter? Or possibly Eliza Ann Winter is using her former husband’s name (as she appeared to keep doing up until her death) in the directory.
The 1893 electoral roll has Eliza Ann Winter in Caledonian Road (while Susan Webb, nurse is in Methven – as is Eliza’s presumed sister Mary Ellen).
The 1896 electoral roll has Eliza Ann Winter in Caledonian Road as well as Susan Webb, nurse.
The 1903 Wises’ Directory lists Susan Webb (Eliza’s mother?) at 1 Dean Street, which intersects with Caledonian Road at that same spot.
This is all rather confusing – but I think it does connect Susan, Eliza, and Mary Ellen. And therefore that same Eliza to Methven (where, according to her divorce papers, she was based in the early 1890s), i.e. even if Thomas Frederick Webb of Caledonian Road is no relation at all.
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to SteveH,
I have found the shipping records for Eliza’s family on familysearch.org.
Genius! Though the ages are a bit confusing in places -- Susan was 30 in 1871 and 44 six years later in 1877.
Do you take it that Eliza Ann was 'Annie' and Melinda was 'Minnie'? That would make sense (as these were names that both gave to their daughters) but the ages don't appear to match.
I have images for all the above records. Shall I post them here or upload them somewhere else?
Just post them here please, Steve. Thank you!
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to ChrisW,
The verse is from what appears to have been or be a popular ?Non-Conformist hymn, and I think you’re fully justified in reading meaningful nuances in the headstone as a whole
Heck -- what a gloomy hymn! Mind you, some of the other verses could have made for an even more pointed headstone.