Posts by David Haywood
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Greg McCreanor,
I tend to think that the relationship between Alington and Eliza began when he was at the Mount Hutt Roads Board in Methven and she was living with family there having been deserted and awaiting divorce. Alington was in the Hunt Club with Coleman I seem to recall…the Colemans were obviously unable to have children and an adoption would mean that Alington could see his daughter as ‘uncle George’ perhaps.
Thanks so much for posting all that information, Greg -- fascinating stuff! And an intriguing theory...
Do you have any theories about who paid the legal bills for Eliza Winter's divorce -- I've seen all the paperwork and it must have cost a packet! I wondered if it might have been Alington, who perhaps intended to marry her. But then his family intervened and procured a young heiress who was more suitable?
On the subject of Eliza Webb, it would have been her 150th birthday today. In one of those funny co-incidences, it is also my son's seventh birthday. He said that Eliza could share his cake (see attached).
The cake is supposed to be a pirate ship sailing through a tempest-tossed ocean, with cannons and a plank at the stern to allow victims to be conveniently flung off. [And yes, that is our clawfoot bath in the background with a laptop sitting in it -- don't ask].
We hope that Eliza would have liked such a cake.
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Thanks so much for re-releasing those pieces, Russell.
At one stage, I had a bunch of former refugees lined up to do an entire book of these stories -- but it turns out that publishers (even academic publishers) are surprisingly uninterested in this as a subject.
This was before Public Address Books, of course...
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The residences of the Colemans and Eliza (nee Webb) Winter as per Wises’ Street Directory 1894-1895 (as shown on a Christchurch map from 1923):
W = Eliza (nee Webb) Winter residence
C = Probable residence of George & Amelia Coleman
? = Another probable residence of George & Amelia Coleman (this is the house they lived in according to their adopted daughter’s grandson, and is also in the 1913 Wises’ Street Directory. Note that Bristol Street did not exist in 1894-1895, and so this location might have been the actual Webb Street address).Taking the ‘?’ as the correct address for the Colemans then there are only twenty-seven houses separating the two residences.
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The Coleman’s adoption statements also from Greg McCreanor:
The statement says:
George Coleman sworn swith. I am retired master mariner and a Justice of the Peace residing at ChCh. I am applying to adopt this child Eileen Winter. The mother left the child about four years ago. She was left in our custody by the putative father G H Allington. I have not heard of the mother since. I do not know where she is. Geo Coleman [signature ].
Taken and sworn before me at Wellington this 15 January 1897, H.S.Wardell [ signature ],Stipendiary Magistrate ‘.
The RGO also included a photocopy of the Coleman’s application to Wardell on Jan.7th 1897:
’We George Coleman of the city of Christchurch Gentleman and Justice of the Peace and Amelia Mary Coleman wife of the said George Coleman do hereby apply to adopt as our child Eileen Winter a female illegitimate child of the age of five ( 5 ) years whose mother was Mrs E.A.Winter of Rakaia near Christchurch.
Dated at Wellington this 7th day of January 1897. Geo Coleman Amelia Coleman [ signatures ]
Witness to the signatures of the said George Coleman and Amelia Mary Coleman, Andrew Wylie [signature ], a Solicitor of the Supreme Court of N.Z.Upon reading the above application I hereby appoint the Magistrates Courthouse Wellington as the place and Friday the 15th day of January 1897 at 9.30 oclock in the forenoon as the time for hearing the said application. Dated this 9th day of January 1897, H.S.Wardell [signature].’
It appears that the Colemans had the baby directly from Alington (the letter we have) and not the mother (I’m thinking that they only knew the mother’s name ‘Mrs E.A. Winter’ from the receipt in my possession). It also says that the mother is from Rakaia (where the Rev Holland was vicar), which is the line of investigation that I’m now following myself.
Also interesting that George states he does not know the present location of the mother. Eight hundred metres away, George! Will try to post a old map showing how closely they were living, essentially at opposite ends of present-day Ranfurly Street.
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A possible baptism certificate for the adopted baby from Greg McCreanor:
I found this baptism in the ChCh Public Library card index back in the 90s...
Mary Hilda Ann Winter. Born Dec 9th 1891. Baptised April 12th 1893. Sponsor: Miss Torlesse. Priest: W.S.Bean.
The date of birth matches, but the name is rather different (although plausible since Eliza (nee Webb) Winter's sister in Methven was Mary). If this is the right baby, then clearly Eliza can't have had anything much to do with the baptism or she would have put the correct 'Annie' rather than 'Ann'.
There seems to have been at least one Miss Torlesse mentioned in the newspapers of the time, and a Miss Torlesse's diaries are available at UoC -- has anyone heard of her?
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Russell Brown,
I received this email via the site from Greg McCreanor today:
Thanks for posting that, Russell. I’ve been in touch with Greg; he has some interesting material, which I will report here soon.
If he’s amenable, I’m also hoping to ask Greg if he has any recollections of his grandmother that he might share here.
[EDIT: with apologies for using that particular meaning of the word ‘share’, which I particularly hate.]
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Charles Home,
Hi Charles,
Great to hear from you! Apologies for the late reply, I have been up the other end of the country at my grandfather's book launch.
You certainly have some very interesting relatives in the Alingtons. I particularly like the sound of Rev John Alington and his sermons in praise of free love. Clearly a man before his time.
If it would be useful for your genealogical research to have high-resolution scans of any of the documents that have been uncovered, then just contact me here.
Thanks so much for contributing to this thread -- it's quite wonderful to hear from an actual Alington relative!
Kind regards,
David Haywood -
Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Ian Dalziel,
I wonder if the ‘John Martin Busch(sp?)’ might be her elder brother John
- after a name change to keep the Maiden/family name of MartinInteresting idea...
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Lynley Chapman,
Was the divorce Eliza sought through the courts ever granted David?
I had assumed it was -- since it was all in the official archives and there was oodles of paperwork. But now that you mention it, I wonder why they didn't put "divorcée" on the certificate for her second marriage?
Do any experts in this subject have enlightenment to bestow?
It would, of course, be excellent to add bigamy to the growing list of weirdness for this story...
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Birth certificates of Eliza's supposed illigitimate children:
Horace Clement Wilfred Webb
Hilda Annie Webb
Berty Alfred ForsterSUMMARY OF RELEVANT DATA:
1. Horace Clement Wilfred Webb
Birth location: Frederick Street, Dunedin
Mother's name: Eliza Ann Webb
Mother's place of birth: Ramsgate, Kent, England
Mother's age: 32COMMENTS: the baby's place of birth is unlikely, the mother's place of birth doesn't match (our Eliza was born in Cornwall), and the mother's age also doesn't match (our Eliza would be around 26 years old).
CONCLUSION: This is NOT our Eliza's baby!2. Hilda Annie Webb
Birth location: Crescent Road, Saint Albans, [Christchurch]
Mother's name: Eliza Anne Webb
Mother's place of birth: Cornwall, England
Mother's age: 27COMMENTS: All the data matches (including the address as per that supplied to Eliza's childrens' school in 1892).
CONCLUSION: This is definitely the baby that became Eileen Winter Coleman.3. Berty Alfred Forster
Birth location: Napier
Mother's name: Eliza Webb
Mother's place of birth: Ashford Kent, England
Mother's age: 44COMMENTS: the baby's place of birth is highly unlikely, the mother's place of birth doesn't match (our Eliza was born in Cornwall), and the mother's age also doesn't match (our Eliza would be around 30 years old).
CONCLUSION: This is NOT our Eliza's baby!UBER-CONCLUSION: Eliza had considerably fewer relationships than some of her relatives have supposed...
