Posts by David Haywood
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Marriage certificate Eliza Ann Winter, 1898.
1. The age on this certificate implies a birthdate between 29 November 1864 and 28 November 1865, which doesn’t quite fit with the burial details (age at death implied birth between 15 October 1863 to 14 October 1864).
2. But the place of birth ‘Cornwall’ does match with the census and arrival documentation.
3. Interestingly, Eliza is described as “Supposed widow”, but I can’t read the rest of sentence. Can Ian Dalziel’s scanning electron eyes make any sense of it, I wonder?
4. Also interesting is that none of Eliza’s family were witnesses.CONCLUSION: This is almost certainly the same Eliza Ann Winter.
EDIT: Could it be: “Supposed widow states that she has not seen her husband for 7 years”?
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Marriage certificate Eliza Ann Webb, 1882
1. The marriage date is the same as that on the divorce papers.
2. The witnesses match the names on the census and arrival records that SteveH cleverly unearthed – this confirms our assumption that Susan Webb was Eliza’s mother and Minnie her sister.
3. The birth date range (implied by the age on the marriage certificate) between 5 May 1864 to 4 May 1865 matches that of the burial records that we had supposed for "Eliza Ann Kennard commonly known as Eliza Ann Winter".CONCLUSION: our assumptions about all these documents were correct.
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to SteveH,
Now arrived! Will post later tonight. I can promise a surprise (well, not much of a surprise to me, but a surprise to some...)
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Oh, and see update to this post:
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I’ve just had a big spend-up at BDM – hopefully this should provide the information (names, dates, signatures, handwriting, etc.) to nail down all the loose ends.
I’ll post the BDM results here as they come to hand (eight days, according to BDM).
I’m also going to write a post that will entertainingly (I hope) summarize the results of all the hard work that’s be done by the people commenting here.
* Birth printout – Webb, Berty Alfred Forster – 1895/2583
* Birth printout – Webb, Hilda Annie – 1892/3429
* Birth printout – Webb, Horace Clement Wilfred – 1890/18287
* Marriage printout – Webb, Eliza Ann – Winter, William – 1882/35
* Marriage printout – Winter, Eliza Ann – Kennard, Frederick – 1898/3379 -
From this entry in the THE CYCLOPEDIA OF NEW ZEALAND:
THE REV. JOHN HOLLAND, Vicar of St. Bartholomew’s, was born in Lancashire. England, and was educated at St. Augustine’s College, Canterbury, Kent. He was ordained deacon in 1877, and priest in the following year, and became a missionary; as such he was stationed at Sarawak, North Borneo, for two years and a half, and at Singapore for a similar period. In 1881 Mr. Holland came to New Zealand, and was stationed at Kumara for nearly three years. He was subsequently for about five years chaplain to the public institutions in Christchurch. After being nine years at Rakaia, he became vicar at Kaiapoi in 1900.
EDIT 02JUN14:Probably unrelated, but John Holland’s wife was known as ‘Eileen’ but her actual name was ‘Ellen’. See: Women and the Arts, p.55, 2nd to last paragraph.
According to this family tree (in which the marriage certificate seems to have been sighted) John Holland married Ellen Wreaks on 18 February 1890, Papanui, Christchurch. From the same source: Holland was born 9 December 1850 in Worsley, Manchester, and died 26 September 1930; he is buried in the Barbadoes Street Cemetry.
If this is correct, he would have been newly-ish married, and aged 42 (his wife was 36) when the Alington’s child was born. It is conceivably possible that he and his wife looked after the child until she was adopted by the Colemans (and hence the child’s adopted name of Eileen).
I could find no children for Rev Holland and his wife on the BDM database.
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From the inquiring mind of Lynley Chapman:
Good morning David.
I have just received small photos of George Coleman and Amelia Mary Coleman from a list member off NZ rootsweb - she contacted a distant cousin - no name offered sadly.
Here they are – Amelia somewhat overpowered by a voluminous dress and parasol.
Thanks
LynleyAnd now I'm off to go cycling with my wee children...
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Lynley Chapman,
Horace Clement Wilfred WEBB, born 1890. Died 1916 at the Somme, WW1, Buried in Armentieres, France. He enlisted in Whangarei. Recorded his mother Mrs E Webb, East Belt, ChCh as his NOK.
Very interesting! I believe I know where our Eliza Ann Winter/Kennard lived until 1914, and it was never in the East Belt.
I feel a round of birth certificate ordering coming upon me – I’ll state here and now that I strongly suspect that our Eliza Ann Winter/Kennard had only one illegitimate child.
In other news (from 1889): it turns out that Rev John Holland was once the chaplain of the "hospital, lunatic asylum, and other public charitable institutions in the neighbourhood of Christchurch" (this would have included orphanages). So he had a lot of contacts.
I've been reading about Rev Holland for the last few hours -- and, by crikey, I like the sound of him!
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to SteveH,
There are school records for her Winter children starting St Albans school in March 1892, though her address is listed as Crescent Rd:
Hells bells, Steve, your fact-finding is positively superhuman! Bloody well done!
I’ve also come to the same conclusion RE: Eliza Ann Winter, Caledonian Road, 1893, being the one we want – but via a different method.
Wise’s Directory lists William Winter at Caledonian Road; but he’s not in the electoral rolls at all. So I conclude that Eliza is still using his name in Wises (there’s no other Winter on Caledonian Road) – in the same way that she is still using his surname at her children’s school (which makes sense from her perspective).
I strongly suspect that keeping herself and her children all with the same surname is the reason for the ‘Winter’ in Eileen Winter Coleman’s name.
If Eliza arrived Christchurch around March 1892 then the baby would be only a couple of months old. I wonder if the baby was in Christchurch or with Susan Webb (Eliza’s mother) in Methven? I also wonder what kind of ‘nurse’ Susan was – the Christchurch papers of the time seem to use the word ‘nurse’ for what we would refer to as a ‘nanny’ nowadays.
Given that Caledonian Street was Eliza’s (and her mother’s) old neighbourhood, where presumably people were aware of Eliza’s abandonment, then I suspect the baby might be in Methven.
Does that give us a path to adoption via, say, the orphanage (and/or Rev Holland) in Ashburton where the Colemans are perhaps living at this time? I feel that the timing of the £20 payment on December 21st 1892 might be significant – perhaps this is when Eliza agreed to adopt the baby to the Colemans, and they took possession in time for Christmas (with the adoption being arranged by Susan Webb, Alington, and Rev Holland).
In July 1891, the Coleman’s are described as visiting Christchurch from Ashburton, so they may well still be in Ashburton during most of 1892.
Then the Colemans move to Christchurch and discover that their adopted child’s mother lives only 800 m away.
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Lynley Chapman,
Genealogy amongst the archeology then at Central Library?
Depressingly, yes!
And, heck, I wonder if I explained myself properly -- I can access the NZ electoral rolls, no problem (I mentioned Eliza Ann Webb of Montreal Street upthread), but I just couldn't find Amelia Mary Coleman in 1893.
However -- good news -- I have just found Amelia tucked away in the 1893 supplementals (she must have registered late). She's in Webb Street just as you said.
