Posts by David Haywood
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Have been poking around Methven today (see street name in photo above). More later...
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Ross Mason,
Post natal depression I think it would be classified. I think she had 4 or 5 under 6years of age by this time. She was 32.
Jesus wept -- so many tragic stories! Those were the good old days, eh. The days that certain political parties (whose leader/founder's name might rhyme with Polin Praig) would have us go back to...
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Lynley Chapman,
In an potential “trip up your research” coincidence, the Mother of Bertie (presumably his adoptive mother) is also named Eliza.
I know that I’m a crusty old scientist/engineer, but one thing I’ve been wondering about is the sourcing of birth, death, and marriage information in genealogy. Is there a trail of ‘references’ which leads back to someone who has definitely sighted the actual certificates?
I’m now wondering if I should order the birth certificates for Eliza’s suspected children from BDM – could there be any possibility that they might contain new information that could attribute them to another mother? We also now have her signature from the divorce affidavit which may prove useful.
For example: the BDM database gives us Berty Alfred Forster Webb with mother Eliza [no middle name] Webb. So his middle name is also – coincidentally – the surname of the family who adopt him? And his adoptive mother and birth mother -- coincidentally -- also have the same first name. Couldn’t another explanation be that Eliza Forster’s maiden name was Webb (when she had Berty) and that she inserted the middle name to reflect the father’s surname, and then married (or just cohabited with) the father taking the surname Forster herself? In other words, nothing to do with our Eliza Ann Webb at all?
Apologies in advance if this is a terribly naive question – obviously I’ve never had anything to do with genealogy before (and probably will never again unless another strange letter is coughed up by our house).
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Petra Jane,
Poor Eliza didn’t have much luck with the fellas. I looked for husband #2 Fred Kennard on Papers Past and it looks like he abandoned Eliza and the family in 1899
Gosh, poor Eliza. It just seems to get worse and worse for her... what a tragic series of incidents.
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to Lynley Chapman,
I could not find Eliza Ann residing with Mr Alington, as his housekeeper, on electoral rolls but I did not have all the relevant data with me.
Thanks, Lynley! I'm also pursuing this line of enquiry (will post more later tonight).
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Southerly: Who was George Hildebrand…, in reply to JacksonP,
David, I’ve been promoting this thread heavily elsewhere, but just wanted to say, this is one of the best PAS posts OF ALL TIME.
Thanks, JacksonP!
This letter does indeed seem to be connected to all the basic human elements: birth, death, marriage, assault, desertion, fornication with “common" prostitutes, embezzlement, illegitimacy, abandonment, adoption, suicide, and a millionairess at the end.
In fact, apart from the last item, it reminds me of the time I went to dinner with Russell Brown and Dr Jolisa Gracewood. I kept thinking: “Thank goodness we have a doctor along. If the worst happens then at least she can make a surgical intervention”.
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… and also the promissory note (above).
These seemed unrelated until I noticed the “Payable at Johnston, Mills & Joyce Solicitors, Gloucester Street, Christchurch”.
This is surely the same “Johnstone [sic]” on the envelope (which contains a message quite unrelated to the promissory note).
AND the executor of Amelia Mary Coleman’s will was one… FREDERICK WILLIAM JOHNSTON of Johnston, Mills & Joyce Solicitors.
I therefore have a strong suspicion that the documents have come to me via Frederick William Johnston, Solicitor, who decided (perhaps for obvious reasons) to refrain from giving them to Eileen Winter Coleman (who was only 20 at the time of Amelia Coleman’s death and would therefore have not been permitted to act as an executor with Johnston).
Perhaps another mystery solved?
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POSSIBLE BREAKTHROUGH…
I thought I’d go back and have a very careful look to see if anything else was in the location I discovered the Alington documents.
Bingo! I unearthed the apparently irrelevant envelope postmarked 1917 (above)…
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Here are the wills and divorce affidavits:
Divorce_affidavit_Eliza_Ann_Winter.pdf
[**NOTE:** Divorce_affidavit_Eliza_Ann_Winter.pdf seems to have a page missing. I'm not sure if this was missing from the original file, or whether I somehow forgot to copy it. I can visit CHCH again to check the original if anyone needs it.]
And good news that the signature in the will from George Coleman matches that of the adoption letter. Absolutely unequivocally he and his wife adopted Alington's daughter and she became Eileen Winter Coleman.
The characteristic loop on the 'G' of his signature is also present on all signatures in the will. Given that this was present throughout the body of the adoption letter, I think we can conclude that he almost certainly wrote the letter leaving blanks for Alington to fill in as Ross Mason theorized.
From the contents of the will George Coleman sounds like a nice chap.
From the contents of the divorce affidavit Willian Winter does not at all sound like a nice chap -- though I felt a bit sorry for the poor prostitutes being described as "common".
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More of the well-behaved Emma Hart’s detective work (with my assistance); the presumed grave of Alington’s daughter Eileen Winter Coleman.
There is a very slight question mark here for me in terms of the date and age of death, as this would imply a date of birth between 25 July 1890 and 24 July 1891 – which doesn’t quite gel with the date range in the adoption letter of 25th November to 24th December, 1891. But, of course, it’s very close.
[EDIT: Although perhaps the Colemans were told that Eileen’s birth was, say, July 1891 as it would put Eileen’s date of birth before the divorce had been applied for, i.e. while Eliza was still legitimately married to Winter.]
I also checked the data on Eliza Ann Kennard at Bromley Crematorium, which records her as “Eliza Ann Kennard commonly known as Eliza Ann Winter died 14 Oct 1942 aged 78”. This implies a birthdate of between 15 Oct 1863 and 14 Oct 1864 – which gels with her reported date of birth on 22 June 1864.
