Posts by Graeme Edgeler

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  • OnPoint: Student Loans are Loans (Duh.), in reply to Deborah,

    At present, student fees are about 75% government funded, and 25% student funded, mostly via loans.

    Ha!

    University of Auckland
    Domestic student fees for one year of a BA: $5666.40.
    Government subsidy for one year of a BA: $6014.00
    For an arts degree, the ratio's not 25:75, but 49:51.

    LLB domestic student fees: $6050.40
    LLB government subsidy: $6014.00
    For law, it's 50:50.

    The equivalent international fees are $23,968.80 (BA) and $28,048.80 (LLB)

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report

  • OnPoint: Student Loans are Loans (Duh.), in reply to Russell Brown,

    Anyway, it's a great read:

    The Oatmeal on Tesla.

    I think you need SONAR to deal with U-Boats, not RADAR.

    Also, the observation that majority of the world of the world was still lit by candle power at the time isn't particularly remarkable. That was effectively the case for many years into the 20th century. It's still the case in much of the world today.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report

  • Legal Beagle: A matter of conscience, in reply to Lilith __,

    Yes…but isn’t your original point about how not all of the things that go to a conscience vote should go to a conscience vote? As society becomes more secular, we start thinking that issues like Sunday trading are fairly trivial, and that alcohol and gambling are matters for regulating rather than taking an absolute stance over.

    Yes. I'm not sure how that is inconsistent with my view that the the common feature of things that are subject to conscience votes was not human rights, but morality.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report

  • Legal Beagle: A matter of conscience, in reply to Islander,

    I think your last postulation is waaay wrong.

    Not mine. I've just describing one way that the theory that was posited could make sense.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report

  • Legal Beagle: A matter of conscience, in reply to Islander,

    I’m not sure what you are implying here: it is a fact that you choose whether or not to apply to go on the Maori roll.

    I thought he was suggesting that there was some commonality in the type of person of Maori descent who is on the Maori roll and also some in the type of person of Maori descent who chooses to go on the general roll. For example, someone particularly in favour of tino rangatiratanga for Maori may be more likely to choose to go on the Maori roll. And that this type of commonility, over and above geographic commonality, may allow such voters a greater chance than in general seats of electing someone whom the general population may be particularly disagreeable to.

    For example, Hone Harawira is not popular with a large number of people. He may even be unpopular with a large number of people of Maori descent, but the type of person or Maori descent who does not like Harawira may be more likely to choose to vote on the general roll.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report

  • Legal Beagle: A matter of conscience, in reply to Lilith __,

    Wasn’t the legalisation of homosexuality put to a conscience vote?
    Isn’t the common thread human rights (as someone else said above)?

    Not really. I say moral issues are the common thread.

    Alcohol, gambling, Sunday trading, and the like aren't really human rights in the sense of slavery, and discrimination against sexual orientation.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report

  • Legal Beagle: A matter of conscience, in reply to Ross Bell,

    Graeme, aren’t personal votes and conscience votes technically the same thing? I recall last time the alcohol purchase age was debate the Speaker called for personal votes.

    No. For most purposes, they're interchangeable, but no.

    A personal vote is a vote cast by a member of Parliament by themselves, and not through a (parliamentary) party vote.

    In the United Kingdom parliament, all votes are personal votes, but not all votes are free votes/conscience votes.

    In the New Zealand Parliament, the vote on who should be Speaker is always a personal vote (if there is a vote, there is often only one nominee), but you better believe it's not a conscience vote (in the UK and Canada it's a secret ballot).

    A conscience vote is any matter on which MPs are free to take a position without repercussion by their party.

    A personal vote is any vote cast personally.

    The latter is the usual mechanism by which the former is done.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report

  • Legal Beagle: A matter of conscience, in reply to Ewan Morris,

    This may be of interest – the Law Commission on alcohol legislation and the conscience vote

    I did think about including it, but decided my point was made well enough and long enough already :-)

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report

  • Legal Beagle: A matter of conscience, in reply to tussock,

    Also, yeh, this idea that morality comes from religion is a lie. It never did, each new religion just claimed long-existing morality as their own, and changed along with society if they wished to survive.

    That wasn't what I was claiming. Even if morality precedes religion, that doesn't mean that a particular person's morality can't come from religion.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report

  • Legal Beagle: A matter of conscience, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    An MP has every right to make a personal decision not to drink, not to have an abortion and not to shop on a Sunday. What we are talking about isn’t them exercising that right, it’s them forcing others (using the state’s monopoly of violence) to adhere to their personal moral views.

    From the perspective of an MP who opposes abortion, I'm pretty sure they view there opposition as ensuring that people can't force their views on others (being the view that another person should die).

    </q>He’s the MP for Helensville, with 74% of the votes. I can’t think of any electoral system that would change this.</q>

    I can think of several. E.g. Proportional voting with open lists, in which people can cross off the names of people they don't like, and they then go down the list.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report

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