Speaker: Rugby, Racing and Emotions
40 Responses
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BenWilson, in reply to
and that further the more, as men in particular, we can get comfortable with feeling, tolerating and verbalising emotions the better.
Yes. I've kind of struggled to comment on this thread because it's about something quite serious, under the hood, and I felt it quite strongly after the last World Cup final. I mean, we bloody well won, and celebration should have been some kind of no-brainer, but it didn't happen where I was. It was a strange and sad insight into our national male character (the women didn't really seem to be affected at the party I was at).
It is interesting to hear from an actual psychotherapist who, no doubt, has a lot of NZ male clients. I took Kyle's point to be that sports appreciation is therapeutic, if you don't take it too seriously, and that somehow our inability to so thoroughly enjoy the catharsis in NZ is a problematic part of our national psyche.
But I may have got that wrong, because, (and please don't take offense at this, Kyle) therapists so often try not to offer a strong opinion, since it's not about them. They invite reflection hoping that the client will find their own insight, and will deliberately see both sides of the situation, in order to promote realistic self evaluation. So I'd also say Kyle seemed to be also acknowledging that the NZ male way of dealing with shit may just be different. But I did get a feeling that he was suggesting that the emotions brought on by getting into a sport might be better on the outside, since it's essentially something rather unimportant.
TLDR: Kiwi men are bad at emotions. Let them out?
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Peter Darlington, in reply to
It's like when someone talks about a TV show they're into and there's always this one dude who leaps in to say "you proles! I got rid of my television 17 years ago and took up whittling! I haven't missed it a jot!", as if that's relevant to the conversation about the text.
Lol, it's funny cos it's true!
#televisionreference
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Yeah, I don't have much enthusiasm for sport, watching or playing, but when people get on their high horse to say that their fun hobby is "better" than yours, it gets a bit tedious. I don't see any difference between sport, D&D and collecting mid-period Monets, particularly.
That said, the conflation with patriotism (isn't that a cringy word for an NZer), stereotypes about masculinity, and the ridiculous sums of money concerned are worth criticising. But that being done without the implication that all rugby fans are boofheads would be just fine.
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
when people get on their high horse to say that their fun hobby is
Now this is a HOBBY... :-D...
Now that... is a sexy machine, am I right?.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I took Kyle's point to be that sports appreciation is therapeutic, if you don't take it too seriously, and that somehow our inability to so thoroughly enjoy the catharsis in NZ is a problematic part of our national psyche.
1996 was an interesting year for me. It was the year a very large company served a lawsuit on me over something I'd written. Being properly sued sucks as a journalist and in this case it was less a lawsuit than a full-on carpet-bombing. Someone really wanted to get me. I was stressed and grumpy with my family for months until it went away.
1996 was also the first year of Super Rugby, and times at Eden Park watching the Blues dazzle their way towards becoming the inaugural victors were really the only times the stress subsided. It really did help a lot. I was quite a shouty fan that year.
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The blues were really good that year. Some people from not-auckland were worried this new commercial rugby setup was doomed to be onesided sweep with all the money, top players and coaches ending up in the blues.
Not so much this century. It's a national mystery. -
Kyle MacDonald, in reply to
It is therapeutic, anything that allows for expression and for us to find our own meaning can be, including cathartic expression, or protest (as in 1981). At the risk of seemingly like a walking cliche, for me rugby is about my dad, he watched every game I played growing up (despite being absent in other ways) and we now have season passes at Eden Park, and have done since 2004. It's become our way to catch up, stay connected and I know in years to come I will treasure these memories and shared experiences.
So it all depends really, ay? -
A mid period Monet, is that a bit like half time?
My memories of rugby are a bit hazy due to being kicked in the face with a sprigged boot. I do remember my brother had his leg broken during a game once but this wasn't the namby- pamby game played in NZ this was proper English public school rugby where it's meant to be cathartic. After all your patents have sent you away to boarding school so someone has to take a beating to square things up what?
Perhaps the whole colonial relationship with the mother country is why post war NZ worshipped such a horrible bully boy game.
At least the professionalisation of the game has reduced the number of spinal injuries inflicted on players
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Kyle MacDonald, in reply to
Sorry, that wasn't the right way to put it you're right. What I was trying to say was I do think that living our lives in accord with our values is very important, and ultimately leads to happiness and meaning.
I was six at the time and so have a genuine excuse (unlike our PM) to have no memory of the events. I'm proud that others took the stand at the time, and what they gave of themselves in protest.
I only recently learned that New Zealand's tour to South Africa in 1976 caused African nations to boycott the 1976 Montreal Olympics. An uncomfortable side note is that the absence of those nations (arguably) made possible John Walkers 1500 m gold medal...
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Sacha, in reply to
and let's wonder how much pause that has given him since?
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
I only recently learned that New Zealand's tour to South Africa in 1976 caused African nations to boycott the 1976 Montreal Olympics.
When the All Blacks were tear gassed. While I'm unable to find a mention of it online, I'm pretty sure that the Muldoon Government held a send-off function for the team at parliament, which kind of undercut Muldoon's mantra about sport and politics not mixing.
An uncomfortable side note is that the absence of those nations (arguably) made possible John Walkers 1500 m gold medal...
Walker was very forthcoming about that. Although an avowed critic of Muldoon, he once revealed in an interview that he didn't let that stand in the way of accepting a lift home from a public event from the old horror. When Muldoon dropped him off he opened the boot of his car to reveal crates of fruit, offering "Help yourself, son", which prompted Walker to reflect on how someone who in his view had done so much public evil could still manifest a common one-to-one charm.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I only recently learned that New Zealand's tour to South Africa in 1976 caused African nations to boycott the 1976 Montreal Olympics. An uncomfortable side note is that the absence of those nations (arguably) made possible John Walkers 1500 m gold medal...
I was 14, old enough to feel ashamed of my country. 20 African nations weren't there because of us.
In sporting terms, yes, it did deprive the Games of another Walker-Bayi matchup (after the 74 Commonwealth Games, where they both broke the world 1500m record in the final), but I think Walker would have won that one.
And I do still remember where I was when New Zealand's hockey team won gold. Down at Burnside Park, about to play rugby ...
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don’t you think that in many ways it [sport] serves some of the same functions in 21st century society?
Thats up to fans of sport to figure out.
A fan Kyle? No I am an anti-populist at times like this
You go enjoy yourself, I'll just hope the ABs dont win the silly cup -
BenWilson, in reply to
Perhaps the whole colonial relationship with the mother country is why post war NZ worshipped such a horrible bully boy game.
It was well popular before either World War. But probably being more English than the English (who mostly actually obsess about soccer now) would have had something to do with it. Doesn't really explain why it's so popular with Maori and PIs, but that's probably more to do with the leveling power of sport, in which prowess is clearly a major factor in selection, rather than class, income, race. Whatever the hegemonic sport is, you'll probably find it's popular amongst some disadvantaged groups, just because it's something that reduces the disadvantage.
I leave out sex, though, in my list of disadvantages that a sport could help someone overcome. It's not a great leveler there, it's the opposite, highly exclusionary. This is not limited to rugby, of course. But it seems to have quite an extreme expression there. I've never so much as seen a woman playing any kind of game involving tackling against men. At least in soccer, girls and guys can have a kickaround. In the rugby-like sports, there's pretty much only touch rugby that can be enjoyed together.
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BenWilson, in reply to
At the risk of seemingly like a walking cliche, for me rugby is about my dad
Surely for a therapist, it would be a cliche if it was about your mum :-)
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