Speaker: John Roughan is Scared
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Incidentally, does anyone know the reason why port bound trucks, rather than using the expensive motorway built for them, tend to drive up symonds St.
huh? Driving up Symonds St is driving away from the port. The hill slopes down to the water, after all.
I've seen plenty of trucks using the motorway ramps for the port. But there's a lot of industry around the inner western suburbs that's not best accessed from the motorway. Mt Roskill and Richardson Rd/Stoddard Rd, as a couple of examples. -
Only if it links back to the Western Line, though. Otherwise it's just two tracks going to a single line that doesn't link to any other part of the network.
Or it is double tracked all the way out to Albany (long skinny loop) or forms a branched loop somewhere on the Shore (Albany & Takapuna loop).
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Also, how would a rail loop encourage people who can't use it to the CBD?
By make getting around the CBD a lot easier, by providing transport that doesn't rely on crowded city streets, you make the CBD a more attractive place to be.
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Angus, it's telling that public transport experts and even the main Auckland Mayoral candidates support the cbd loop in pretty much the layout proposed 70 years ago.
Like others, I really encourage you to go read Joshua's many detailed and illustrated posts about it, as you seem interested in the topic.
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$2000 for a dishwasher? I hope it cooks breakfast!
Poached salmon.
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Our dishwasher doesn't seem to have a 'poach' setting, Angus (that will teach us to to buy cheap appliances). What do you recommend?
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Only if it links back to the Western Line, though. Otherwise it's just two tracks going to a single line that doesn't link to any other part of the network.
Or it is double tracked all the way out to Albany (long skinny loop) or forms a branched loop somewhere on the Shore (Albany & Takapuna loop).
How does that increase the number of trains on other lines that can use Britomart, though? It'd have to loop right across from Albany to join the Western Line before it creates a loop around Britomart, which is what's required, and that'd still be an extremely long trip to get back to the Western. Otherwise it's just a single line (even double-tracked it's still a single line, just as the Eastern, Western and Southern Lines are all single lines) that branches out from Britomart and connects to nowhere before coming back again.
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I think you're rather missing the point of what the tunnel will do to increase capacity. It's not that it's two more tracks away from the platforms, it's that it's a tight loop around the CBD that can feasibly be used by trains connecting to the Southern or Western Lines. -
Note how the sun moves across the sky and casts pretty shadows...
The earth's rotation must be increased by 10x its present speed when they build that "interchange" for the shadows to move that quickly.
They must have a hotline to the celestial bus/sun controller.
Well one good thing, the working day will be over in a flash. -
One line mentioned as facing closure is Northland
Nnnnnnoooooooooo...........sob ...sob.
Given that reportedly a lot of the track is so under-maintained that trains are reduced to walking pace, it's not surprising. Joyce has shown consistently that he won't pay to rehabilitate rail, preferring to diminish the size and utility of the network so that Quinn is forced to play with one hand tied behind his back as he tries to grow KR's income and share of the freight market.
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Incidentally, does anyone know the reason why port bound trucks, rather than using the expensive motorway built for them, tend to drive up symonds St.
Because they want to kill university students.
I've long maintained that mid-Symonds should have been reduced to 30kph and two lanes once the motorway extension was built.
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“A Billion here, 2 Billion there, and pretty soon you’re starting to talk real money.”
By way of contrast, the 214 km Gisborne - Napier railway is at threat of closure for its inability to generate net revenue sufficient to cover the annual line maintenance and renewal cost of $2 million.
There was an interesting symposium on the subject organised by TransitionTowns in Gisborne this morning. The policy context is set by Steven Joyce's “challenging goal” in 21 Apr10 speech that
KiwiRail Group become, within ten years, a sustainable freight-based business that is able to fund its ongoing operating and capital expenditure from customer-generated revenue.
Without being politically pointed about it, Dr Murray King (‘President, Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport’) made the significant point in discussion that this may well allow Government to leave the decision on mothballing = closure of the line to be made by KiwiRail on their own assessment of the short-medium term prospects of its profitability to them, without regard to the many wider interests, such as impact on road users including the literal impacts of death and injuries, which are routinely taken account of in the benefit-cost assessment of other transport options.
This political sensitivity is perhaps why there was a no show from the regional director of the NZTA, who had been scheduled to speak as well, but pulled out at the last minute for fear of being expected to discuss Government policy in the area. Snort.
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By way of contrast, the 214 km Gisborne - Napier railway is at threat of closure for its inability to generate net revenue sufficient to cover the annual line maintenance and renewal cost of $2 million
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may well allow Government to leave the decision on mothballing = closure of the line to be made by KiwiRail on their own assessment of the short-medium term prospects of its profitability to them, without regard to the many wider interests, such as impact on road users including the literal impacts of death and injuries, which are routinely taken account of in the benefit-cost assessment of other transport options.If you read this Herald article I posted a page back, I get the distinct impression that if it's his decision Jim Quinn (KR CEO) won't mothball any more lines at this juncture. He'd rather rehabilitate them and get customers using them, especially given the very solid support from Fonterra to utilising rail ahead of road.
[edit] The direct quote is:
The man in charge of those decisions has already mothballed the Stratford-Okahukura line. And Napier-to-Gisborne is up in the air, says Quinn. "We'd like to keep it viable but it's got revenue just north of $600,000 and it's got a $23 million capital bill in front of it over the next 10 years."
Other lines under a cloud are Northland and the North Wairarapa line connecting Masterton to the Napier line.
"We're telling people, here's the problem and we'll try and work with them to unleash the most opportunities we can," Quinn says. "But if we're unable to close the gap, we'll move to a mothball phase."
Cutting rail back to a few profitable lines, he says, would leave him "with a business that's no more viable than I've got now but with a much reduced growth prospect".
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On the matter of pricing in road deaths, if one looks at figures from NZTA it's apparent that even a single fatality resulting from increased truck movements will cover the maintenance bill for one year. Possibly two. That's one death, which is pretty much a certainty. Only takes a "good" multiple-fatality crash involving a truck that didn't need to be on the road before the penny-pinching attitude of Joyce on matters rail becomes very, very short-sighted. Especially since road safety is also his bailiwick. I wonder if there'd be grounds to sue for failure to adequately discharge his statutory duty to road safety, along the lines of the lawsuit just brought against NIWA.
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This political sensitivity is perhaps why there was a no show from the regional director of the NZTA, who had been scheduled to speak as well, but pulled out at the last minute for fear of being expected to discuss Government policy in the area. Snort.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if few people at NZTA agree with Joyce's attitude of "roads uber alles", they just can't say what they think because it's unprofessional. Wouldn't be surprised if the NZTA director didn't show because he'd rather be labelled a coward than an unemployed turncoat after speaking out of turn. Nothing like an angry mob to get your true feelings to the surface, and a reported comment along the lines of "I disagree with this entirely, but he's the Minister so what can I do?" is a good way to ensure that you're looking for a new job.
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Joyce on matters rail becomes very, very short-sighted.
Not just him.
Bennett on matters beneficiary.
Tolley on matters education.
Collins on matters criminal.
Brownlee on matters resource.
And Key on anything. -
Bennett on matters beneficiary.
On matters beneficiary, I'd call Pull-ya Benefit more hypocritical than short-sighted. The "Fuck youse, I've got mine and now I'm going to kick out from the top the ladder that I climbed" attitude.
Collins on matters criminal.
I giggled. Rather hard.
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How does that increase the number of trains on other lines that can use Britomart, though?
It mostly doesn't.
However in each scenario you have an equivalent pattern. One stream of trains approaching from the east to disembark their passengers before departing to the west with another stream of trains doing the same thing going the other way. This pattern (irrespective of where the rail actually goes) gives a doubling of Auckland rail capacity, alleviating the choke point that is the Britomart dead end.
An inner city loop is cheaper and a Northshore line will be able to mitigate a traffic jam that has occured daily for the last 30 years. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages.
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Our dishwasher doesn't seem to have a 'poach' setting, Angus (that will teach us to to buy cheap appliances). What do you recommend?
Lots of very well wrapped about tin foil, otherwise the coffee starts tasting of salmon.
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Incidentally, does anyone know the reason why port bound trucks, rather than using the expensive motorway built for them, tend to drive up symonds St.
Presuming you meant down and also assuming they are actually going to the Port the first thing that jumps to mind is that they are trying to avoid the chance of the weighbridge checkpoint at the bottom end of the motorway. They might be overloaded or dodgy in some other way.
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Jim Quinn (KR CEO) won't mothball any more lines at this juncture. He'd rather rehabilitate them
Yes KiwiRail is trying on the Gisborne Napier line at this juncture - tunnel floors recently lowered to allow Hi-Cube containers to be carried and so forth. But unless the policy frame is broadened, the constraints of that narrow policy will apply cumulative pressure on KiwiRail, while Joyce spends up on the Puhoi-Wellsford holiday highway ...
NZTA spokesman - "It was not appropriate for the NZTA to speak on government policy in this area, so she [Jenny Chetwynd, regional director] declined to come." It would have been interesting to ask her about the policy process and decision-making in the medium-longterm national and regional interests within that Policy, but not to be.
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Angus, looking at the CBD loop vs North Shore line situation.
One of the main reasons why we will need the CBD rail tunnel in the future is so that we can increase frequencies on the existing rail network, and also so that we can run an Airport Line.
From early next year there will be 20 trains per hour arriving at Britomart from the "eastern entrance" (the only entrance at the moment). This will be comprised of 6 trains from the western, southern and eastern lines and 2 trains from the Onehunga Line.
Let's say we build a North Shore Line. Then we can continue some of those trains through to the North Shore, but that doesn't help us get that many more trains to Britomart from the south, west and eastern lines. In fact, 20 trains in is about one every three minutes and it's not possible to run trains at frequencies too much higher than that. Would we want all 20 going to the North Shore? I doubt it, which means we'll still have to turn around a large number of trains.
What the CBD rail tunnel does so well is provide two ways in which trains from the west, south, east and Onehunga (read: Airport in the future) can access Britomart and the CBD. They can either access via the existing tracks from the east, or they can access from the new portal around Mt Eden. My preferred service pattern would link the west and south lines together, and link the east and airport lines together. How that would work is shown in this post.
In terms of the North Shore Line, I struggle to see that as a huge priority. The Northern Busway is barely two years old, and cost $400 million to build. It's not easily upgradable to rail because the grades are too steep - so we could be looking at the line costing around $3 billion all up: of course that would also include the tunnel under the harbour. With traffic volumes falling on the harbour bridge, I struggle to see the necessity for that.
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Only takes a "good" multiple-fatality crash involving a truck that didn't need to be on the road before the penny-pinching attitude of Joyce on matters rail becomes very, very short-sighted. Especially since road safety is also his bailiwick. I wonder if there'd be grounds to sue for failure to adequately discharge his statutory duty to road safety, along the lines of the lawsuit just brought against NIWA.
Politicians make decisions on health that are much more directly responsible for deaths. If a lawsuit was going to work surely that'd be the place to start?
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One coming up is the stoush about neurosurgery services in DN: knowing the West Coast provisions are minimal (but the dhb opted for centralisation of ALL n. services in CHCH) and having experienced the DN services, and appreciated them (and being a ratepayer on both sides on the motu - and a voter in local body elections on both sides of the motu) I am rather interested in the outcome...
Pollies are heavily involved, not least because they have opted to make the decision - and may have stacked the advisory panel.
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If you're discussing litigating politicians for their decisions, shouldn't the people that voted for them also be liable?
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Does a voter actually control a pollie?
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Does a voter actually control a pollie?
Depends how big the voter's wallet is, dunnit?
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