Hard News: The silence of the public square
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Tinakori, in reply to
John Campbell had a go. Didn't end well, if I remember correctly.
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"My only problem with those parties is that they were originally pitched as general get-out-the-vote events, but wound up very much as Internet Party campaign things."
So, if a party crowd like that was being incited to say the same sort of things about a Labour leader or the previous Labour PM, Helen Clark, you'd be quite ok with that too, just exuberant youth having a good old right wing time?
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Pete George, in reply to
“If there’s any truth to what I have seen today, then somebody’s head should roll” said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP Hone Harawira.
“I’m gutted, and Maori in Tai Tokerau will be seriously troubled that Davis and his mates are cozying up to the people who have caused so much damage to our communities”
"Internet Party leader Laila Harre is outraged the Prime Minister has called Kim Dotcom her 'sugar daddy'."
But Harawira and Harre seem comfortable sharing a stage with the person (who said he was going to set up a party and step back and leave them to it) manipulating crowds like this, using them for his own political, legal aims and self aggrandisement .
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Pete George, in reply to
Harawira has claimed that Kelvin Davis is cozying up to National.
“National has been directly responsible for driving up unemployment, homelessness, ill health, and poverty for Maori right across the north” said Harawira. “I’m trying to get rid of them and Kelvin Davis and his crew are doing deals with them!”
“I’m gutted, and Maori in Tai Tokerau will be seriously troubled that Davis and his mates are cozying up to the people who have caused so much damage to our communities”
“And don’t buy this rubbish about me having more money because of Kim Dotcom either” said Harawira.
Hone the hypocrite making things up.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
So, if a party crowd like that was being incited to say the same sort of things about a Labour leader or the previous Labour PM, Helen Clark, you’d be quite ok with that too, just exuberant youth having a good old right wing time?
The "Fuck John Key" chant actually comes from Home Brew/@Peace, who were getting crowds to join in with it two years ago. Dotcom doesn't appear to have instigated it and, no, I'm not going to have a fainting fit about the kind of thing that's happened on a hundred protest marches.
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Pete George, in reply to
Dotcom doesn’t appear to have instigated it
Not sure who instigated it at this meeting but looked like a managed crowd and it looked like Dotcom was an integral part of it and reveling in it. And Harawira and Harre are also an integral part of it while the complain about 'smears' and 'offensive' comments from Davis and Key.
This is how the video went at that event:
Kim Dotcom!
Kim Dotcom!
Kim Dotcom!
Kim Dotcom!
Kim Dotcom!Hey! How are you doing?Are you ready for a revolution?
Are you read to take down the Government?
Are you ready to extradite John Key?Fuck John Key!
Fuck John Key!
Fuck John Key!
Fuck John Key!This year you all have to vote. You all have to vote – you have to make it happen!
I’m, going to come down there, and I’m going to give every single one of your hearts!
I love you guys! Thank you.Fuck John Key!
Fuck John Key!
Fuck John Key!
Fuck John Key!That video was posted by the Internet Party on Youtube. There seems to be quite a bit of instigating and active involvement by Dotcom, Harawira and Harre. This is a totally different way of political campaigning in New Zealand.
Chris Trotter has been a bit of a fan of the revolution by any means but he commented on this:
Mass enthusiasm for a German politician?
What could possibly go wrong?
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
Yeah, because someone who (whether you like it or not) is still Prime Minister after not one but two free, fair and credible general elections is exactly like a fictional mass murderer.
While I agree name calling is silly and a waste of time*, I'd also caution against using success in elections as proof of honest and legal behaviour, such proof is best left in the courts assuming sufficient evidence exists to even bring a case.
Personally I'm pretty sure Key is not a mass murderer and also probably not fictional.
* Although sometimes genuine satire and comedic value is a reasonable excuse. -
Nice Godwin there from Mr Trotter
:: eyeroll::
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
Mass enthusiasm for a German politician?
What could possibly go wrong?
Hey, why not promote an ideology that regards an entire people as "tainted" and not acceptable participants in civil society.
Better make sure no Russians ever run for office (Stalin), Vietnamese (Pol Pot) or even Australians (Bligh, etc).
And this from the man who has no problem with his mate and namesake Dunne taking cash bribes from foreign tobacco multinationals.
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Pete George, in reply to
The nature of the campaigning is more pertinent than the nationality but it's hard to escape from the connection.
Your link is eleven years old and has nothing to do with this topic, I had nothing to do with it, I have nothing to do with the person named and you make two false claims, so you observation is very poor.
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
it's hard to escape from the connection
Only if you're a xenophobic racist.
I have nothing to do with the person named [Mr "bought and paid for" Dunne]
Except for:
It’s well known [Peter George has] been involved with UnitedFuture after they asked me to stand for them in 2011 (http://yournz.org/tag/pete-george/)
There ain't no delete button on the webz.
Also, just to deal to the inaccurate precis "they asked me to stand": GEORGE, Pete UFNZ 176
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Sacha, in reply to
hypocrite
I doubt this word means what you think it does.
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Pete George, in reply to
That's openly acknowledged peripheral involvement but it's history, you made false claims, and it has and nothing to with this thread except for you trying to use it as a diversionary attack. That commonly happens in political forums to try and divert from awkward facts.
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Obviously "Fuck Helen Clark" would have different connotations, because fuck is a gendered term. But a crowd chanting "Fuck David Cunliffe"? I wouldn't join in, and it's probably not going to be a hugely popular way of expressing your dislike for the Labour party, but it is basically fair enough, part of the game.
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I think it's pretty relevant who happens to be running a line, especially when it's a standard technique of the NZ right to try a chameleon trick: one year, they're a candidate for a party, the next they're an "independent" local body candidate and next minute, they try to recycle themselves as an "impartial commentator".
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linger, in reply to
I.e., it's OK to have and express opinions about political parties, but not OK to misrepresent or hide relevant political affiliations when doing so.
(obligatory full disclosure: I am not, and have never been, a member of any political party.) -
Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to
“Fuck Helen Clark” would have different connotations, because fuck is a gendered term. But a crowd chanting “Fuck David Cunliffe”? I wouldn’t j
There's an entirely different reason why people will chant "Fuck John Key" but not "Fuck Helen Clark" nor "Fuck David Cunliffe", and it's got nothing to do with gender nor the esteem in which they are held, and everything to do with rhythm and scan. "Fuck John Key" has a great rhythm to it; the other two don't. You might get "David Cunliffe is a [insert one-syllabled insult here]", or "Helen Clark: Bite my ass", or similar, but you need to have one-syllable first and last names for the "Fuck [whoever]" chant to work.
So across the political spectrum, other candidates/MPs crowds could happily chant "Fuck" at would be Phil Goff* (Labour) , James Shaw (Greens), Ken (if you shorten it from Kenneth) Wang (ACT), Rod Paul (Mana), or Chris Young (Internet - Gil Ho doesn't work so well only because reshaping your mouth from the -ck to the -G sounds is awkward). United Future doesn't have anyone with an appropriate name, unless you shorten Peter Dunne to Pete Dunne (or unless Pete George wants to stand again, lol; JK! :-P). The Conservatives don't seem to have released their list yet, so they're safe for now.
*I think I recall Phil Goff having exactly that shouted at him in the days of student loan protests.
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Beautifully observed Lucy . The syntax rules for chants is important. You'd think it smart for an unloved politician to change their name to something long and unchantable.
Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi is safe -
Pete George, in reply to
In 2011 I was a party candidate (I had been going to stand as an independent) - correct.
Last year I stood as an independent local body candidate - correct.NZ right - this is a lazy diss, and nonsense.
Recycle themselves as an “impartial commentator” - I haven't tried to do that.
"Especially when it’s a standard technique" - really. I think you're making things up."I think it’s pretty relevant who happens to be running a line" - if you truly think that Rich of Observationz then you will be open about your political past and present, as you are obviously trying to run a line albeit anonymously.
And you could get back to topic which happens to be about silencing the public square - diversionary attacks and making things up are common ways of trying to shut down discussion about topics.
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Pete George, in reply to
Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi is safe
Nope, no one is safe from political attack, the dissers find something to diss on.
Someone recently blamed the wording on political billboards for 'inviting' defacement. That's nonsense, hoarding vandals just work on whatever is there regardless. I don't think any have thought "that face is too handsome/pretty to draw a mustache on".
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Stephen Judd, in reply to
think I recall Phil Goff having exactly that shouted at him in the days of student loan protests.
Me too. May actually have done so myself.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
and everything to do with rhythm and scan. “Fuck John Key” has a great rhythm to it; the other two don’t.
Yes. That's why it worked for Home Brew.
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Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to
Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi is safe
Nope, no one is safe from political attack, the dissers find something to diss on.
Pretty much. Pick the right crowd of 8-10 year olds, give them a name and 5 minutes, and they'll have a chant for anyone. Maybe "Bakshi's Batshit" or something. You don't have to use the whole name, after all, it's just a bonus when you can.
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Pat from State of Mind, who played the gig and was standing sidestage at the time, says the chant was going in the audience long before Dotcom got on stage, which makes sense. It's not actually a new thing.
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I would have thought riffing on the 'off' would have worked best.
i..e. "Fuck off, Phil Goff!"
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