Hard News: The March for Democracy
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Oh, FFS Steve -- would be it within the realms of possibility that you don't need some bullshitty conspiracy to explain why nobody was in any great rush to claim responsibility for the greatest terrorist attack on American soil in the country's history.
And what has that to do with anything I said?
You know, the slaughter of over three thousand human being who were citizens of dozens of nations besides the US?
And what of the people of Afghanistan and Iraq or the countless people who's lives have been fucked up beyond recognition or those locked up in jails around the world in case they know something?.
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Human error on human error, incompetence on top of what turned out with 20/20 hindsight to be lethally bad calls...
Not to mention that it's pretty hard to stop people who don't care what happens to them (like suicide bombers).
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Vanity Fair's article from a few years back on the NORAD response on the day was a pretty amazing read too.
It certainly is.
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But let's not insult him by saying his name in the same breath as 9/11 'Truther' loons.
... and please, let's not go so far as to overly-malign the 9/11 'Truther' loons by equating them to the fucking Holocaust deniers.
[Not necessarily directed at you, Craig]
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Cripes, what a discussion! I have been busy all day, running an oral examination* via video conference for my PhD student in Seattle and I have only just got to PA. What a mix of insights and fruit-loopness--and what a turn-up for the books, in that I can no longer dislike Deborah C. like I used to.
* I wish they would give a different name as it suggests something vile and dental.
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Vanity Fair's article from a few years back on the NORAD response on the day was a pretty amazing read too.
It certainly is.
And is an interesting take on the life of conspiracy theory. At the time, the whole "WELL WHY WERE THEY ON SOME LOCKED DOWN TRAINING AND CONVENIENTLY IGNORING US AIR TRAFFIC OVER NYC???!!" meme was at a high point. The light of truth has seen that part of it die away, with other strands unfortunately taking it's place.
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... and please, let's not go so far as to overly-malign the 9/11 'Truther' loons by equating them to the fucking Holocaust deniers.
[Not necessarily directed at you, Craig]
Feel free to make all the eye contact you like, because I feel very comfortable with the equation. The most awful thing about the evidence in Irving v Penguin Books and Lipstadt was the forensic exposure of how he crossed the line from being a "revisionist" historian of World War Two, to blatant, habitual and systematic falsification of the historical record when it did not suit his agenda.
If folks like Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth don't like the comparsion, perhaps they shouldn't be equally selective about their use of science.
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Cripes, what a discussion! I have been busy all day, running an oral examination*
So much for name suppression.
</threadmerge>
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Nicely done.
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If folks like Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth don't like the comparsion, perhaps they shouldn't be equally selective about their use of science.
Quite.
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Mark Cubey wrote:
Gage looked interesting, but I hadn't done enough work on sussing out his detractors (check out this forum for instance). It's like creation/evolution - stirs up a hornet's nest and nobody wins.
Well...he is probably right unfortunately...in America at least. But check out the 1997 Gallup poll re everyone else V Scientists. ....c'mon the College Grads!!!....we still have some work to do......keep at it folks!
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so where were we. Oh yes, the Demo-Crazies. I've done a little poking around and discovered some tenuous links.
All this talk of Democracy, or the perceived lack of it, can be traced back to the anti MMP brigade, could all this have anything to do with the upcoming referendum regarding that?. Also, bigish leap here but off the top of my balding head, ETS and the DOC, foreign investors planting native trees on conservation land and the Brethren. How all this ties up exactly I don't know but I smell something ratty or fishy or at least iffy.
Thoughts? penny for them. -
All this talk of Democracy, or the perceived lack of it, can be traced back to the anti MMP brigade, could all this have anything to do with the upcoming referendum regarding that?
But it's so easy to demonstrate that their perceived issues would be made dramatically worst by returning to FPP.
ETS and the DOC, foreign investors planting native trees on conservation land and the Brethren.
Brethren seems an odd chuck in there, but I suppose a link between "we want to use the conservation estate for income generation, and given we've already given iwi access to crown land to do so it would be awfully racist of us not to let Bell Atlantic in to do the same" is a plausible statement. But somewhat ironic given you're making it in a thread that has partly become about unsubstantiated conspiracy... =)
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But somewhat ironic given you're making it in a thread that has partly become about unsubstantiated conspiracy... =)
I resemble that remark Sir ;-)
The Brethren link is a tricky one but I just know it's there, Bloke down the pub told me, honest. Said he read it on the internet or something. -
However, on a wee other note. Has anyone been to "Natures Discovery" lately? a franchise[?] that includes Westfield Queensgate and Papanui. They now have a free stand displaying creationist literature and "resources". (Small captial letters). For some reason I have an immense desire to cease visitng the place until they rid the place of it.
The chain's motto is "Discovering the Wonders of Creation", so it's hardly a surprise - they've had some creationist literature in every one I've visited. Luckily they mostly seem to be embarrassed enough by it to hide it in a corner. I wouldn't expect it to vanish any time soon, though.
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You probably need to work the large hadron collider in there somewhere as well, seeing as it's back on line.
And Obama is going to use it to travel back in time in order to plant the fake evidence of his birth in Hawaii. The evidence is right there: after all, his birth certificate exists, right? So he must have travelled back in time to plant it there, right? How else can your science explain that one, eh?
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I totally missed that about Natures Discovery.
But on ballance how does their fantasy world compare to Barbie & GI Joe?
Probably more good than bad.
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What an interesting discussion. Frankly 9-11 discussion leave me cold - I've no interest really, though images of Falling Man and others mesmerised me this morning. Such bathos I thought. So human. Perpelxed and perplexing.
Which sort of explains Deborah Coddington. I'm reading a book by Bernard-Henri Levy - "Left in Dark Times: A Stand Against the New Barbarism" - basically a disassemble of the Left currently. At least the Left in France. Deborah C may care to read it - I suspect it speaks to her as well.
At least I get permission from the book to state that while I am Left, people like Keith Locke, anti-semetic and homophobic to boot (Ahmed Zaoui never spoke out against Muslim men targetting Gay men) leave me stone cold. For that reason I've never been a member of the Greens, despite supporting many of their principles. Being Left these days doesn't mean that I blindly support 'old causes'.
Perhaps Deborah C is doing the same, or already has done so.
It's a fluid world alright, demonstrated so aptly by Messers Craig and Co - what is democracy exactly? HUH? CARLY BINDING REFERENDUM? Images of bootprints? Which is why I did the Nazi salute and cheery sieg heils (to the bemusement of two charming Frenchmen just arrived - I imagine that one can't do that in France). Doing so invites question, but I don't think anyone who was there on that march in a serious capacity was capable of asking.
Not that's a problem - there were so few of them relative to the population that I suspect more than a few of the rest of them could intelligently ask the question.
sigh. Such is modernity - a thread combines questions about democracy, about 9-11, about what's left or right, about Barbie and GI Joe.
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'Spiral back' in time Rich, its called spiraling back.
Obama's so cool, he just imagines he's there, and you'll think he was.
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At which point Craig and I will stage a minimalist performance worthy of Steve Reich in which our heads impact our desks in a rhythm out of phase with each other, producing aesthetically interesting patterns of sound.
So was it you 2 that bought down building 7?
Genius.
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At which point Craig and I will stage a minimalist performance worthy of Steve Reich in which our heads impact our desks in a rhythm out of phase with each other, producing aesthetically interesting patterns of sound.
So was it you 2 that bought down building 7?
~~!crrrkkk!~~ Three, two, one... ~~!crrk!~~
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At which point Craig and I will stage a minimalist performance worthy of Steve Reich in which our heads impact our desks in a rhythm out of phase with each other, producing aesthetically interesting patterns of sound.
I'm more of a Philip Glass fan, but keeping up rhythmic pounding of Einstein on The Beach proportions without dying is a big ask.
1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, 2-2-3-4, 2-2-3-4, 2-3-4-5-6-7-8, rinse and repeat...
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people like Keith Locke, anti-semetic and homophobic to boot (Ahmed Zaoui never spoke out against Muslim men targetting Gay men)
So Keith Locke is homophobic because a refugee he supported through an incredibly dodgy security/legal process has never explicitly proven he's not homophobic? I guess that makes me homophobic too.
Bugger, I thought I was better than that.
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Frankly, Tim, I'm disappointed in you.
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Bugger, I thought I was better than that.
You could try reading a little of that Bernard-Henri Lévy, he'll have you feeling morally superior to just about anyone in no time. Personally, I believe that the vain and vacuous Levy richly deserves the multiple custard pie attacks he's received from entarteur Noël Godin.
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