Hard News: On the Waterfront
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I really like the idea of owning and upgrading Queens Wharf. I agree with Russell, the Party Central concept is a distraction from the main kaupapa: that we finally have control of a key waterfront asset. The challenge now is to ensure it is developed into a useful public space, not some kind of Westfield on the water.
Sure, as Craig points out, now is not the perfect time to invest in this kind of stuff. However, there are two points I think are salient with regards to the timing:
1) I'd rather pony up now that wait for the never-never. Infrastructure in Auckland has been neglected my entire life, and I'm sick of waiting. The time and opportunity is now , so lets grasp it and cut the whinging.
2) I suspect that the ARC can see the writing on the wall in terms of declining demand for their over-water carpark from said recession.
Oh, and unlike the doomed waterfront stadium ill-conceivance, Queens Wharf will not require close to 2 billion in investment, nor will we be faced with inevitable cost blowouts because the project absolutely has to be finished before the RWC. Unlike a stadium, we can actually go cheap on the nebulous Party Central without the punters being too put out. All we need is a big screen, some bars and some fastfood...
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Like many built features in Auckland including most of the buildings in the CBD, I reckon that pohutukawa sculpture is clunky and lacks grace. The concept is fine.
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Ben - I think you'll find most of us in Dunedin who oppose the local stadium are not really against actually having a stadium (after all we already have one, did you see the game on Saturday? it was sold out, the new one will be a little smaller) - what we are against is PAYING so much for a second one - and having only 50,000 ratepayers pony up $200-400M for it - depending on overruns, 10% already in 2 months, and financing costs and whatever it's going to cost to reroute SH88
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Queens Wharf was on its way to public ownership anyway, and the surrounding waterfront planning has been going on for an eternity.
Rugby World Cup may provide some timely leverage (and the holders of our public purse always seem enthralled by claimed economic benefits of leisure events), but I suspect the impending merging of councils may have played a larger part in this deal. It is a prime example of why things are being changed, whether or not we agree with the details.
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Sorry, public access, rather than ownership.
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Auckland has a vested-interest knocking machine that trying to argue against is akin to arguing with a brass band. Just when you've dealt with Cassandra-like blasts from the Newmarket Business Association's trumpet the trombone of the intellectual snobs who can't stand the idea of the peasants enjoying a game of rugby starts up.
God, the "you hate rugby you effete snobs" crap is tired. I guess it would be the time to note that those languid chardonnay-swilling aesthetes you so disdain would probably be in a better position to cover the rate hikes imposed to cover a whacking great budget blow out than any actual "peasants".
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The peasants like Loigue anyway... and football (but that's mainly the immigrants)
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As for the topic, it's like all the fools who talked down the Wellington stadium ...
My favourites were the ones who insisted that it should be in Porirua.
Now of course, the proximity of the stadium to Wellington's leisure precinct is almost universally regarded as A Great Thing.
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The peasants like Loigue anyway... and football (but that's mainly the immigrants)
Very true. Eden Park is quite full of toffs.
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now is not the perfect time to invest in this kind of stuff
As far as I understand, economic theory says capital spending on large projects is a good thing during a recession.
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I am the only person in the world who loves that thingy!
No, it has 1689 freinds and has its own MySpace page.
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In other news, they're going to build a motorway through Taupiri mountain. Who could possibly object?
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There is also the untested assumption that without buildings the public won't use the area.
Big wide open spaces aren't very appealing, whether it's a car park or a playing field. Spaces need things in them - people, buildings, sculptures, businesses, seats.
The Meridian buildings on Wellington's waterfront has a Mojo cafe and Wagamama restaurant. The Wagamama particularly has splendid views over the harbour. But it's not like these views are exclusive to Wagamama customers. There's plenty of seating around the building, and on sunny days, you'll see nearby office workers eating their lunch around there.
Without the Meridian building (or similar) that space would be bleak and empty.
My take on the whole waterfront development is that New Zealanders don't like to acknowledge there are cities in this country. The national image is an aerial shot of the Southern Alps or Milford Sound. We forget about urban areas (witness the resistence to the new Auckland city promos).
And when we do build new things, we try to evoke the "traditional" New Zealand things. Britomart has a Kauri grove, ponga, large illuminated photos of native bush and metal tree sculptures. It's as if it's totally embarassed to be a modern urban transport centre and is trying to disguise itself as a pre-European forest.
By filling up the waterfront with exciting bars, cafes, restaurants, public art and seats, it's definitely acknowledging that this isn't one of those isolated windswept beaches with a craggy pohutukawa; it's an urban harbourside area with concrete and lots and lots of people.
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proximity of the stadium to Wellington's leisure precinct
What?
It's 1.5km from the nearest "leezure" area at Customhouse Quay and nearly 3km from Courtney Place.
And, talking of the caketin, a visit will dispel any idea that stadia are "public open space". High wire fences on most sides, and a bloody great car park between it and the station. Good for skating, though.
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It's 1.5km from the nearest "leezure" area at Customhouse Quay and nearly 3km from Courtney Place.
Still a lot closer than Porirua. Could have been done with more reference to making the stadium interface with the city though, as you note.
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I guess having some sort of cruise ship terminal and bar area is reasonable. It's certainly more of a public open space than a stadium, which is no more than a commercial building for the sport industry (How much public access do current stadia have? None at all?)
You're thinking about stadia only as they look towards the playing field in the middle.
A decent portion (some is needed for access) of the outside of them can be used for something entirely different. The Wellington Stadium has University of Otago offices in it, and I think conference facilities. The new Dunedin one is set to have a health centre and a gym in it (and possibly a cafe, I can't remember).
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You're thinking about stadia only as they look towards the playing field in the middle.
And sometimes even that is public: the Basin Reserve is a pedestrian and bike shortcut when a game's not on, and the grass berms are used for eating lunch or lounging in the sun.
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Anyone really believe that this is going to end up as anything that's in any way better than (or different to) the viaduct?
"Public space" was the catchcry back then too.
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I quite liked the idea of a stadium down by the old Westfield freezing works on the Tamaki estuary. Well I remember it but I can't find anything on Google or anywhere else. A suppressed secret stadium conspiracy?.
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The Basin Reserve is a glowing exception, but I do think that every time Kerry drives past it, she thinks longingly of motorway flyovers.
You can't walk through Eden Park when there isn't a game on, for instance. Offices, gyms and even cafes are not public space. (Any more than the Canary Wharf tower in London is a public space just because it includes a train station and shopping mall).
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Couldn't believe it when I took a turn down a side street off Cardiff's main drag, and there was bloody Cardiff Arms Park! Unbelievable!
Not there for much longer, from what I hear. The developments on Cardiff Bay are probably a good example of how NOT to re-develop docklands--a hodge-podge of commercial and civic buildings, with poor access and no sense of a co-ordinated plan.
I was always amused, when we lived in Cardiff in 2004, that they would sell beer in the Millennium Stadium if a rugby match was on, but not for soccer games (when the Stadium was standing for the being-rebuilt Wembley Stadium). Instead, the city was turned into a war-zone, with mounted poleese and mobile booze barns on every corner.
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Couldn't believe it when I took a turn down a side street off Cardiff's main drag, and there was bloody Cardiff Arms Park! Unbelievable!
Not there for much longer, from what I hear. The developments on Cardiff Bay are probably a good example of how NOT to re-develop docklands--a hodge-podge of commercial and civic buildings, with poor access and no sense of a co-ordinated plan.
I was always amused, when we lived in Cardiff in 2004, that they would sell beer in the Millennium Stadium if a rugby match was on, but not for soccer games (when the Stadium was standing for the being-rebuilt Wembley Stadium). Instead, the city was turned into a war-zone, with mounted poleese and mobile booze barns on every corner.
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In other news, they're going to build a motorway through Taupiri mountain. Who could possibly object?
Well, I might--and possibly Tainui and all those folk who relatives buried on the mountain.
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proximity of the stadium to Wellington's leisure precinct
What?It's 1.5km from the nearest "leezure" area at Customhouse Quay and nearly 3km from Courtney Place.
Really? Doesn't seem that far, but you could be right. But friends and I have walked out of the cake tin after a match and wandered straight into town plenty of times, and never thought of it has a hassle. It certainly seems proximate to both town and of course the train station and bus hub.
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In other news, they're going to build a motorway through Taupiri mountain. Who could possibly object?
Well, I might--and possibly Tainui and all those folk who relatives buried on the mountain.
The ghost of Billy T's chuckle echoes...
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