Hard News: Limping Onwards
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Lew Stoddart, in reply to
Rich,
Interestingly, he has backed Megan Woods, the Labour candidate for the Wigram seat. I'm not sure where this leaves the other members of the Jim Anderton Progressive Party (both of them).
Well, Josie Pagani is standing in Rangitikei (unless parachuted into Darren Hughes' electorate to the south). Not sure about the other one.
Carol,
They do in Australia plus a further 11 countries.
And it has bad outcomes -- especially in Australia, where they have a complicated voting system. Lots of people vote informally (on purpose or by accident), or randomly. Sub-optimal.
L
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People do not have a responsibility to vote. There are many valid reasons for not doing so
Don't vote, governments always win.
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Rich Lock, in reply to
It’s all very well being in denial about media bias, but in NZ we have a daily newspaper monopoly in each city, with the only newspaper you can buy following a clear right-wing agenda.
Most of the time, this isn’t explicit in the Fox News / Daily Telegraph style (except during the last election, when the Herald in particular became a 25 page National party handout).If 'The Left' continues to sit around and bitch about media bias, what is likely to be the result?
1) NZ media suddenly goes 'oh my gosh, you're entirely right. Here, let's run a few more fair and balanced in-depth stories about policies and shit'.
2) NZ media continues, for the next six months, and several decades thereafter, to run biased stories, with a generous side helping of what F-list celebs are up to, whilst sniggering and pointing at the lefties, and occasionally making rude gestures.
If, as I do, you consider 2) to be more likely, what is the best way to proceed?
1) Continue to sit around and bitch about how biased the media is.
2) Actually work up a strategy for dealing with it and getting the message out there in clear and simple terms.
I don't know what that strategy might be, but then again I'm not a highly paid adviser for the Labour party. Frankly, some serious arse needs to be kicked in the strategic communication dept.
Complaining about media bais is about as useful as complaining about gravity, or rain. We need to deal with the facts of life as they are, rather than how we think they should be.
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Scott A, in reply to
yeah, i’m not entirely up with the state of play in the maori seats, and maori voters seem to be very canny with vote-splitting.
No need to isolate that to the Maori seats, Che; since 1996 New Zealanders have shown time and time again that they're very canny at vote splitting where it can make a difference. The political careers of Jim Anderston, Peter Dunne, Rodney Hide and Winston Peters, as well as of TMP, demonstrate that well.
The overhang question can't be ignored, as Che's pointing out. And it needs to be factoring into the thinking of the Greens as well. This election may well turn on something as trivial as the worm's impact in 2002; the smaller parties really need to target and target well.
And, for the Greens, make damn well sure their sympathisers get the hell out of their student houses and vote this time.
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DCBCauchi, in reply to
Yeah, that's pretty scary, eh?
From that Wikipedia article: 'Compulsory voting can be seen as infringing a basic freedom of the citizen.'
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James Butler, in reply to
People do not have a responsibility to vote. There are many valid reasons for not doing so.
They do in Australia plus a further 11 countries
I think there's a difference between a responsibility and a legal requirement though...
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Scott A, in reply to
Didn't I read somewhere that Jim Anderton's Progressives were folding into Labour before the election? Or did I misread?
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Jan Farr, in reply to
Regarding the more recent discussions concerning the rights and responsibilities of voters: is it likely that the level of knowledge about policies etc. – at a population level – is likely to change? Is there much precedent for this?
I think it would help if the media changed its focus from sensation, trivia and personalities, to the examination of policies. In spite of the fact that Google is a quick way to get to the real oil, some of us seem to be happy to go with the cliches, uninformed speculations and half truths pushed by the media, instead.
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Carol Stewart, in reply to
Yeah, that's pretty scary, eh?
Meh. I myself don't have a lot of time for people that don't vote, but I do take Lew's point above that the compulsory setup, as in Australia, may produce perverse outcomes.
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If this is anything to go by,a united front seems good to me, and good on Goff for asking the right question to his MP's.
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Che Tibby, in reply to
There are so many possibilities that could influence it -
Maori Party could drop one or two seats
ACT could disappear (yes please)
Winston could return with a sizeable number
Dunne & Anderton may go
Greens may increase with disaffected Labour supporters
Chch votes may be affected hugely by Brownlees rebuilding or reaction to ECana further 2c.
- Maori Party - agreed.
- ACT disappear - agreed. you can't imagine National not being willing and able to undermine Hide in Epsom.
- Winston return - i'm not sure where this meme comes from. WP has been making some noises, but it's nothing like the Winston of old. he could make a late run, but... i doubt it. will be horrified to have to stand corrected.
- Dunne - Last election saw Dunne return almost solely due to Green votes splitting the Labour candidate. If the Greens resurge, your next point), there's every chance every chance he could be back representing me.
Anderton - Retiring. Wigram could go Labour. Dunno.
Greens taking Labour party votes - Always the way. But that will only increase the likelihood of a National Govt.
this all adds up to a Nat-UF-MP govt, pending ACT somehow magically recovering from the rorting-rort-buster/child-grave-robber meme...
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Jan Farr, in reply to
I find the idea that voters have a “responsibility” to elect your preferred government deeply troubling and undemocratic.
Hi Idiot S – I don’t know whose blog you were responding to. It certainly didn’t seem to be mine. Last time you chose to ignore a word – this time you choose to insert one. Where on earth did you find me demanding that everyone elects my ‘preferred government’? I mean it would be lovely – but I’m quite wedded to democracy myself! I was talking about the responsibility to inform ourselves.
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Jan Farr, in reply to
And that includes not voting.
People do not have a responsibility to vote. There are many valid reasons for not doing so.
Yup. If you want to chuck away hard won rights - would am I to object?
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Christopher Dempsey, in reply to
And John Banks ran.
Actually, he walked around the neighbourhood feeding the stray cats. But seasoned politician he was he never had much beyond a cup of tea at any meeting I saw him at.
I like me a good sweeping, unwarranted statement.
I'm afraid I'm very guilty of this, and thought about it last night after my comment about the 1% paying 15% of the tax take. I should probably go look up StatsNZ to back up my argument I thought... so I probably will at some point.
[But the serious answer is that architecture = intensive graphics work. Which you knew.]
Yes. All those FB pages, movies d/loaded from somewhere legal, pop music videos and general Youtube trawling... the architecture is somewhat intensive. There's always one or two stations with big notes imploring "please don't touch!!!! Rendering!!!!" at terms end...
Last election saw Dunne return almost solely due to Green votes splitting the Labour candidate. If the Greens resurge, your next point), there’s every chance every chance he could be back representing me.
I'm sure Dunne every morning gets on his knees and thanks the Greens for his position.
I suspect that Hide also does the same thing, and is especially nice to Keith Locke. In Epsom the Green + Labour vote is I think within spitting distance of the National + Act vote, and all it would take is a few disaffected blue rinse National matrons to sniff decidedly and vote Labour.
I've explained my theory to Green members but they have explained that they have run the numbers and my theory doesn't bear out. I'm not wholly convinced that I have got it wrong.
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Jan Farr, in reply to
Don’t vote, governments always win.
:)
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Tim Hannah, in reply to
ACT got 2,389, National 24,030, Green 2,662, Labour 7,711.
Not saying you're wrong, but you'd be a better spitter than most.
ETA - That's Party votes in 2008 Epsom.
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Che Tibby, in reply to
I’m sure Dunne every morning gets on his knees and thanks the Greens for his position.
i'm not quite sure how to read that.
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Christopher Dempsey, in reply to
ACT got 2,389, National 24,030, Green 2,662, Labour 7,711.
Not saying you’re wrong, but you’d be a better spitter than most.
ETA – That’s Party votes in 2008 Epsom.
Ahhh, thanks! But what of the individual votes?
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Christopher Dempsey, in reply to
I’m sure Dunne every morning gets on his knees and thanks the Greens for his position.
i’m not quite sure how to read that.
With a straight upright mind Che. Nothing more.
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HIDE, Rodney ACT 21,102
LOCKE, Keith GP 2,787
SUTTON, Kate LAB 5,112
WORTH, Richard NAT 8,220Still not seeing it. If every Worth and Locke voter backed Sutton, you’d still need to convince a couple of thousand Hide voters. Not likely.
ETA - at least in 2008.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
I suspect that Hide also does the same thing, and is especially nice to Keith Locke. In Epsom the Green + Labour vote is I think within spitting distance of the National + Act vote, and all it would take is a few disaffected blue rinse National matrons to sniff decidedly and vote Labour.
I did read somewhere (can't remember where, blame the usual, brain etc.) recently that a true blue Act strategic voter was asked by Mr Key, "if I told you to hold your nose and vote for Hide, would you? She replied No! Friends eh? Gotta love 'em :)
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Christopher Dempsey, in reply to
Lovely, thanks. I stand corrected.
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Actually work up a strategy for dealing with it and getting the message out there in clear and simple terms.
It's partly about making things happen that force their way onto the front page - the anti-cuts march in UK is a good example, or the anti-mining campaign. I don't think Labour has instigated a single extra-parliamentary campaign in the last two years.
I also take hope from the decline in newspaper circulation and advertising - in a few years, the NZ press won't be financially viable. I think then we might see a realignment.
Also, we need media ownership legislation. Why do we tolerate foreign newspaper monopolies telling us how to think?
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Lew Stoddart, in reply to
Might be right, Scott, I'm not sure.
L
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On looking through the Press, wonder if the whole Goff/Hughes/nekkid man inverted elephant is purely for delectation of those living in Wgtn and Akd. Having to use a chemical toilet and wondering what has happened to your job, possessions within the Cordon and CD-Brownlee stuffups does skew your persective
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