Hard News: Bean-Counting the Beat
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And Russell, you cut Brendan off as he was saying something about commercial radio audiences being up something like 12 percent. he didn't get a chance to tell us over what time period etc.
You interjected with you slightly self serving point that internet people are the new taste makers, and in nz thats certainly the case, because we are so poorly served by local radio as far as our own voice in music is concerned. I'd be interested to know more details on brendans radio relevance point and I'd also be interested in what the case regarding radio is in other markets that are better catered for. ie is xfm still a relevant force in the UK. does college radio still wield a hefty sword in america. Just cos we're so poorly served here and NZ on Air has failed to do any real good as far as getting our voice on air (what was that list again sam) doesn't mean that radio is a waste of time. Its just broken. fix it. people still drive cars with radios, and work in shops and factory floors with radios.
and if radio is a waste of time should we divert that money away and use it more effectively, and if we do decide that this time I suggest we give someone else a go at being the holder of the purse strings. can we agree on that?
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but you'll have to take my word for it that that doesn't have an impact on my view.
does your personal relationship with brendan smyth have an impact?
And although I don't agree with the logicality of some of dubmuggas arguments I'll back him on the putting you on the spot question.
Do you think Brendan Smyth is the man for these times?
simple question, a simple answer will suffice.
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But I also agree with Brendan, Radio is not going to go away, as long as we have cars and factories.
damn it simon you beat me to the exact same though. can we have an ak/chch fight over this? :)
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Meanwhile in the UK, they're drinking up our bands, there...
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article3889768.ece
Well, some of them.
Wonder what that "iMix of Kiwi cool" is like...
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damn it simon you beat me to the exact same though. can we have an ak/chch fight over this? :)
fire away, but you'll miss as I'm in Bali. I'm just an interested observer right now.
The death of radio is about as spot on as the much touted death of CDs..they still account for about 80% of sales and digital seems pretty stagnant right now.
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And although I don't agree with the logicality of some of dubmuggas arguments I'll back him on the putting you on the spot question.
Which ones ? I tend to make so many that any semblance of logicality gets lost in the mad rush to get em all out before i forget em...heh
An interesting side note to savage is. I oversaw him as his community worker for being a bad boy as a teen in Sth Aux. I'd just get him to hang out and talk crazy shit to him. So glad to see he's made something of himself. Now if only he'd lay off the fatty foods. I'd hate for him to go the Phil Fuemana route R.I.P
BTW...end note to sending BS the email all those years ago about changing radio to suit the artists not changing artists to suit the format. A poisonous email i wish i'd saved and no more invites to cliquey industry parties, no more hit discs and no more funding for artists i thought worthy of.
Is it personal and does it worry me ? Nah cos it has always been about the tunes not the politics. Tunes last forever, no one remembers bureaucrats and my points still stand regardless.
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This is one of the biggest misunderstandings involving this issue. You are nz on airs target audience. we all are. Commercial radio is the delivery medium. NZ on Air serves us, all of us, not just a few narrowminded programmers for the most out of touch media in the country. Why do people keep accepting the situation as it is?
Perhaps I worded that incorrectly - the music that I've been involved in making hasn't be compatible with commercial radio, which as I understand it are the primary decision makers for funding. Hence my decision to not waste time applying for funding (not that it takes that much time). I understood the criteria, and even though I may disagree with the focus of it I still recognise that agencies need to operate under the mandate they are given (being a public servant myself and all).
I do understand, and actually do agree with the fact that the people of NZ should be those being served and not the radio programmers.
But I also agree with Brendan, Radio is not going to go away, as long as we have cars and factories.
But considering it's dimishing influence and market share (in regards to being a format by which people hear new music), and the fact that innovations like satelite radio are just around the corner, certainly the focus on commercial radio must change to reflect this. I think the comment previously about radio just being a delivery mechanism is even more valid - radio used to be an entity in of itself, now days it is simply a method of delivery - like cash vs eftpos - same results, different processes.
Simon - thanks for the agreement, was probably one of my more lucid moments in front of a keyboard recently.
It's not often I post on here, as to be honest there's a lot of personalities who I recognise as being massivley talented and experienced in the their areas which can be a bit intimidating. I'm glad my comments haven't come across as too uninformed! (I hope)
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Pursuant to the brief there is, Brendan has done an amazing job ......... And he's pulled it off, more less.
you're confusing me simon.
you're blowing Brendans trumpet with one .....mouth, and then with the other (you seem to have two) you're saying the system is greatly flawed and has failed to achieve the cultural aspects associated with a funding scheme set up to enhance and support our differences as a cultural aside from american UK or other influences.
This Brief brendan says told him to give the over riding control to the entity previously known as 'the enemy" (not chris knox's old band but commercial radio programmers), I've been trying to find a copy of that for years. I've looked over beehive discussions (what a sad borning day that was) and scoured NZ on Airs site but I haven't seen any quotes directly from this mysterious directive that compelled my Smyth to change direction and set sail for the heart of the sun.
The NZ on Air site (please do go and look) says things like
andNZ On Air will operate in a flexible, consistent and fair manner.
can someone explain to me again how that guy brad from stereogram got phase 4 funding for his new band when that scheme requires 4 previous radio hits and they hadn't even recorded one song yet? that doesn't seem consistent at all.
specifically mention NZ's culture on the airwaves, nothing about pandering to commercial radio's formats there.
and then of course tidily summed up in this little statement
so you can see its absolutely all about culture and identity and none of this I'm in the broadcasting business cop out or some mythical brief.
Brendan has never sufficiently addressed this issue even though he led the media 7 audience to believe he "didn't shy away from debate, we will always answer debate".
Does that constitute a lie from a government official? What's the penalty for that these days? a pay rise? -
I do understand, and actually do agree with the fact that the people of NZ should be those being served and not the radio programmers.
sorry scott I wasn't dissing you at all. I thought you illustrated exactly the common mis conception about what brendan smyth has led us to believe is the role of nz on air. see above for links to nz on airs mission statements.
Its all about us, always has been, we've been mislead.
those fancy political speakers have twisted words and intent to fit their own personal objectives, those cheeky scallywags, who'd have thunk.
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The death of radio is about as spot on as the much touted death of CDs..they still account for about 80% of sales and digital seems pretty stagnant right now.
hieratic!!
surely you're not contradicting the words of self proclaimed web gurus that they are the new kings. -
Just to let you know that Trevor Reekie's 'Access All Areas: On Air with Brendan Smyth' will air at approx. 2.10pm Saturday 17 May on Radio NZ National 101FM & live stream @ www.radionz.co.nz
The complete raw interview will be posted at RNZ National Music Talk (under 'A' for Access All Areas) from 5pm tomorrow.
I had a weird moment recently, visiting Kircaldies & Stains (Wellie's posh dept. store - I don't usually have cause to go there) when they played the Mint Chicks over the shop stereo... it actually cause my brain to 're-track' - "WHERE am I?" VS "yes, it IS what I think it is"...
Things are by no means perfect in NZ Musicland, but they are so, so much better than the bad old days.
Trevor Reekie, the founder of Pagan and Antenna Records, and also the producer(?) of the excellent Access All Areas music interview slot for Radio NZ National. He was checking his research for his interview with Brendan Smythe on related topics, which will air tomorrow as part of Music 101 tomorrow afternoon some time between 2pm and 5pm. I'll link to the full interview when it goes up on the RNZ website early next week.
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you're confusing me simon.
you're blowing Brendans trumpet with one .....mouth, and then with the other (you seem to have two) you're saying the system is greatly flawed and has failed to achieve the cultural aspects associated with a funding scheme set up to enhance and support our differences as a cultural aside from american UK or other influences.
No not at all. I think NZoA has done an amazing job of getting music made by New Zealanders on the radio. Whether it is Opshop or Savage, it is still music made by NZers. Anything else is a qualitative judgement. Full Stop.
However, in just doing that and not encouraging the points of difference, or allowing those that should be led to lead, it has also stymied the growth of what was made and slowed what could potentially be achieved. Tom mentioned electronic music and he's right..unless it fits a traditional band-makes-electronica format it's been ignored despite a huge international market.
But I'd also like to point out that the Kiwi Hit Discs have also snuck on, alongside the commercial (and I'm been qualitative now) dross that stands little international chance, the likes of the Lil Chief releases that are being praised in Mark's link above.
Every KHD has at least two tracks that don't stand a hope in hell of making radio and I guess are targeted towards development..a kind of underlying A&R push along.
I may be firing from a few angles but it ain't all as clear cut as that.
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I'm been qualitative
where is that edit button?: 'being'
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My understanding is in 98-99 music programmers were bought into the decision making process, of recording grants, music videos and hit discs, thus guiding the whole process toward their pre determined image. You don't get onto hit disc unless you're going to get played on commercial radio and you won't get played on commercial radio unless you fit the format, and you get on a hit disc unless you.... etc.
see how nice and tidy it all is.Surely at the most basic level, the name of the organisation answers this. It's "NZ On Air". If it's not going to get on air, then it's not going to be supported by NZ on air. The same with TV - a TV show needs to show that a TV station will broadcast it, before NZ on Air fronts with the cash.
Whether or not that's the right way to go about things, who knows. But if that's the guiding principle, then the music and tv programmers have got it by the balls from day one, as they decide what goes on air. Why complain about NZ on Air? You should be complaining about the people that named it.
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To put you on the spot Simon.
Is BS the man for these times ?
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As a footnote, I believe that NZ On Air used to provide funding for Radio One for their support of NZ music. I presume the other b-net stations got something similar.
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sorry scott I wasn't dissing you at all.
And ironically enough I didn't actually read it as you dissing me either!
I spent a long time, when I was younger, agonising over the entire NZ on Air situation, and it used to get me worked up. These days I'm more than happy to plod along at my own pace, funny how as you age aspirations of world domination and stardom become kind of silly and a bit embarrasing.
But this thread is full of good information as I'm in the planning stages for my next musical project.
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To put you on the spot Simon.
Is BS the man for these times ?
I don't want to see Brendan gone at all. His knowledge, experience and empathy are irreplaceable, but I think we need a) a revision or fine tuning of the brief (regardless of what is on the website...rather as it is applied), b) some fresh young blood at a roots level, from a non-commercial radio background with some input into the decision making.
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OK, long time reader, first time post-er = too ambitious.
that 'Access All Areas: On Air With Brendan Smyth' link is
www.radionz.co.nz/national/music/talk (& look under 'A' for Access All Areas) from 5pm tomorrow.As you were.
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And Russell, you cut Brendan off as he was saying something about commercial radio audiences being up something like 12 percent. he didn't get a chance to tell us over what time period etc.
Perils of television. We were over time and I needed to wrap up. It's the kind of thing you realise afterwards.
You interjected with you slightly self serving point that internet people are the new taste makers, and in nz thats certainly the case, because we are so poorly served by local radio as far as our own voice in music is concerned.
It's not self-serving, it's simply evident. I wouldn't count myself in that anyway.
does your personal relationship with brendan smyth have an impact?
No, Rob, it doesn't. I see the guy several times a year at various events, I like and respect him, but I've never been to his house or even sat down and had a drink with him. There's no need to invent conspiracies. My opinions are my own. Could you please stop trying to personalise the issue in this way?
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As a footnote, I believe that NZ On Air used to provide funding for Radio One for their support of NZ music. I presume the other b-net stations got something similar.
The bNet was created precisely because it allowed the member stations to present a national entity and thus qualify for funding. Inside Track and a few other things do get NZ On Air support as a result.
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I don't want to see Brendan gone at all. His knowledge, experience and empathy are irreplaceable, but I think we need a) a revision or fine tuning of the brief (regardless of what is on the website...rather as it is applied), b) some fresh young blood at a roots level, from a non-commercial radio background with some input into the decision making.
Fair enough but how so irreplaceable ? Surely no one is irreplaceable or indispensible ?
I concur with a) and b). So by what process does one revise the brief and vet the young blood ? Who does it ?
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If it's not going to get on air, then it's not going to be supported by NZ on air.
That's a very chicken and egg comment to make kyle and I completely understand why you would make it. to answer it though you have to look further back, beyond the name to see why the organisation was started in the first place
NZ on Air were there to help combat NZ's cultural cringe which was seen to be in part caused by the fact that we hardly ever heard or saw ourselves on the airwaves, so when Ms Universe NZ came on and said how she wanted to stop world hunger in her hard kiwi accent we didn't reach for the volume control and wince. We weren't in need of more musicians in gainful employment (something impossible on any reasonable scale in a country of this size), we were in need of more of our songs, about us, referencing Cathedral Sq and Dominion Road etc to let us know we had a valid culture.
I think programs like shortland street have done wonders for our acceptance of us for who we are and what we sound like, although I never watch the program, and I also never had a problem with what who I was.
The music program has been a lot less successful though. Changing radio's attitude was their objective. Radio said the quality is the issue. NZ on air said fine, we'll fund some recordings and get the quality up. NZ radio said , don't like the style, NZ on air said fine, you pick the bands, and there is where we have the start of the problem, and it has been a very damaging problem, as we've saw a big drop off in original and innovative bands around the start of the decade.
Interestingly enough, after a good few years of people feeling nz on air was not catering for them and they'd just do music for self expression we've had a big surge in new and interesting bands coming through and they're one again getting noticed for their interesting and unique styles, as noted in marks linked article . That's great and all but that doesn't address the failings of the system, and that it should be put right. No shrugging of the shoulders and move on, it needs a solid examination and we need to make sure the same mistakes are not made again, and it needs to happen right now.
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Perils of television. We were over time and I needed to wrap up. It's the kind of thing you realise afterwards.
ok, can you as a media commentator expand on what brendan was saying. what's the story behind the 12% rise. can you find out?
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Fair enough but how so irreplaceable ? Surely no one is irreplaceable or indispensible ?
Sure, but it's hard to overstate how much industry knowledge, how many contacts, how much unprinted information Brendan has in his head.
No one is irreplaceable, but this is one very clever, very motivated man..why toss that away.
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