Hard News: Bean-Counting the Beat
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No, Rob, it doesn't. I see the guy several times a year at various events, I like and respect him, but I've never been to his house or even sat down and had a drink with him.
ok, I'll take you at your word on that, to use your phrase.
There's no need to invent conspiracies. My opinions are my own. Could you please stop trying to personalise the issue in this way?
I'm not conspiracy theorising. its a simple question. does it have any affect on your judgement? If I was Brendans mate and was hosting a program on funding I'd certainly feel conflicted. But that's just me.
luckily he's not my mate so I can feel free to have a good open critique of the system, if that counts for anything.
did you answer dubmuggas direct question yet? haven't seen it.
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I concur with a) and b). So by what process does one revise the brief and vet the young blood ? Who does it ?
I hate to say it..in a land awash with committees and bureaucracy as NZ is, but I guess you pull some people together to work these things through. But the time to do some is soon, and hopefully the exit of a major record label (with others surely to follow) will provide the impetus to do so. It should.
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.why toss that away.
who said toss (ok I did, it was me), move him over. if the policy is so clear cut then other people with new ideas will surely have a good impact on implementing the objective which brendan has so obviously struggled with.
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I concur with a) and b). So by what process does one revise the brief and vet the young blood ? Who does it ?
I don't think it has to be NZ On Air, but I really think there needs to be a social media/internet person full-time, somewhere in the support structure.
The last time I was at the King's Arms I found myself promising a local band manager I'd sit down with him and work through some key blogs and people for online profile-building.
I don't mind doing something like that, but there should be someone whose job it is to have the knowledge.
Job description: active contact with appropriate people at NZ music sites, Amplifier, YouTube, key social networking sites, Last.fm, music blogs, etc.
Longer-term aims: to devise a workable arrangement with RIANZ/IMNZ/APRA etc for the sampling of music via the internet, and explore the circumstances in which support for the likes of Amplifier (because a digital shopfront presence and marketing are the same thing now), possibly taking the form of support for an aggregation agency or two, would be appropriate.
Along those lines ... and yes, I'm happy to share whatever I can contribute for free.
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Anything else is a qualitative judgment. Full Stop.
a judgment called for and avoided by mr smyth. see links above to nz on air mission statements.
I know its a difficult job to assess cultural significance but its a distinction that would have favoured many of these bands and musicians we all seem to agree don't get a fair shake of the stick.I'm having trouble see why we seem to agree yet some seem to disagree while agreeing.
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Along those lines ... and yes, I'm happy to share whatever I can contribute for free
for a second there I thought you were fishing for a job,
that's cool of you to offer your advice pro bono.That still doesn't address the failings of the current system with regards how they interact with the current crop of musicians. I think nz is small enough for a small organisation to be up on what most centres have going on and actively help artists to achieve wider exposure for their various styles, not just commercial radio fodder.
yes tie in internet with that.
At the moment we have an ivory tower with 3-4 people sitting there defending themselves and telling us all that nothing is wrong in the kingdom.
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I'm having trouble see why we seem to agree yet some seem to disagree while agreeing.
It's Cook Strait, Rob.....
I agree with everything Russell says above, but before we even apply those, I do think the basic premise that any funding or support is applied under needs to be revisited..and if, as you say Rob, the application in practice has veered, then that sort of thing needs to be addressed.
But we need to look at what we are trying to achieve before we try to achieve it.
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Meanwhile in the UK, they're drinking up our bands, there...
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article3889768.ece
Well, some of them.
Wonder what that "iMix of Kiwi cool" is like...Er, patchy ...
'Kenya Dig It?' The Ruby Suns
'Tane Mahuta' The Ruby Suns
'Brunettes Against Bubblegum Youth' The Brunettes
'Small Town Crew' The Brunettes
'To a Lost Friend' Phoenix Foundation
'It Won't Rain Everyday' Phoenix Foundation
'80s Celebration' The Reduction Agents
'Harmonic Generator' The Datsuns
'Hiphopopotamus vs.. Rhymenoceros' Flight of the Conchords
'Business Time' Flight of the ConchordsThe Phoenix Foundation tracks are from another band also called (the) Phoenix Foundation.
D'oh!
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The Phoenix Foundation tracks are from another band also called (the) Phoenix Foundation.
What are the chances, I thought it was a pretty original name.
guess its a law suit or ad NZ to the end of your name.....sigh
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for a second there I thought you were fishing for a job
Oh Rob, why do you always think the worst of me?
It needs to be someone younger, hipper and cheaper than me.
that's cool of you to offer your advice pro bono.
I do it all the time ...
In saying that, I'm still essentially seeing NZOA as a broadcast agency, but one that needs to expand to fill the new spaces available. On-the-ground outreach is, I reckon, a job for another agency.
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it's hard to overstate how much industry knowledge, how many contacts, how much unprinted information Brendan has in his head.
No one is irreplaceable, but this is one very clever, very motivated man..why toss that away.
Clever enough to ensure that by keeping that info in his head and his cards close to his chest he won't be looking for another job any time soon but clever enough to see us through the next phase ?
I don't think so. Maybe a putin style legacy is next. Hand pick a successor and consult from a lesser role but still hold the reins.
Seriously though, industry knowledge isn't like rocket surgery and it's a small world of contacts but i guess the main point is, the industry has changed dramatically in the last 7 yrs and a lot of that knowledge is irrelevent in todays climes. NZoA hasnt changed to reflect that so the buck needs to stop somewhere.
Even the music industry comish with its band touring and copyright workshops is an obsolete joke. The focus and money for artists isnt in touring unless you're some crusty old rock dinosaur group short on reddies and the commish don't have the nowse to educate others on copyright in the digital age. No one does yet thus making them slighlty irrelevant also.
in a land awash with committees and bureaucracy as NZ is, I guess you pull some people together to work these things through. But the time to do some is soon, and hopefully the exit of a major record label (with others surely to follow) will provide the impetus to do so. It should.
...and if it doesnt then what ??? how much time do you give it ???
Russell, while the points you raised re: revising the brief and vetting applicants makes sense and ties into what i thought about linking apra to amplifier and selecting radio tunes from there and paying royalties accordingly, the current system as we all know is afforded by advertising revenue on trad broadcasting mediums.
The net cant generate that income to feedback to NZoA or police copyright so i cant see NZoA, APRa/RIANZ biting the hand that feeds them.
Do we really need someone to have the knowledge. Cant we via the net have the knowledge but not the someone :) ?
As for IMNZ aggregating anything without access to APRA logs... it cant, so willl always be a toothless tiger waiting in the wings. They would be my obvious choice for an independent review of NZoA, copyright and digital pimping issues but i cant see that happening either.
so where does that leave us again... the status quo ?
BTW who is cheap hip and young enough to qualify for indy input to NZoA ? I'd say mikee from loop but i wouldn't trust that dodgy lil fucker anymore than i do BS to make decisions solely on merit and besides he would have an obvious vested interest in his own roster plus he's from welli ...hehe
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I have to say this forum is fairly nostalgic of nzmusic.com circa 2003.
NZONAIR have not sealed the deal with commercial radio but that is surely down to stubborn programmers. If you look at the variety of music that has been funded over the years there is a great deal of cool music that has had the chance to make videos. $5000 might seem shit to the people who have moved on from music vids to advertising but you can actually achieve quite a lot with it if its all you have got or if your in the position to supplement it then do so.
I have always been annoyed with Phoenix Foundation songs have been relegated to the 'Indie Hit Disk' but in recent times we have been on the 'Kiwi Hit Disk' and that hasn't made a great deal of difference. Having a major record label behind us has achieved occasional plays on the Rock and ZM but nothing approaching being playlisted.
I am really grateful to have had the support of Brendan and his team (and lets not forget this organisation isn't one guy making decisions in an ivory tower smoking crack with the feelers or something) but the only thing that will get new interesting music on commercial radio is a severe cultural shift in the boards and audiences of the two companies that dominate so much of NZ radio.
so Mr Robbery my point isn't that I think NZONAIR is a great success story but that I don't think they are the problem.
I used to get furious that we never got funding from NZONAIR but now I would be a total hypocrite to diss them. So I guess my opinions are pretty compromised anyway! One thing I will say is that NZONAIR seemed to create a real boost in the broadcast of New Zealand music videos but this is dieing a little with the heinous drift of Music channels turning into tennage reality TV channels. I am an old grumpus.
As for the internet I don't really see the need for a govt body to help any creative pursuits in that area. It is so easy that if your not doing you just haven't tried.
Any band today needs;
a youtube channel
a myspace page
a facebook page (for gig invites etc)
a Last Fm account
A flckr account (so you can upload flyers to create links to)
....a DATABASE!!!!.... to get emails off people at gigs etc. This is the most valuable piece of marketing any band can have these days.If there is a manager in NZ who can't work out how to do any of the above from just going the sites and following instructions then how are they gonna do monthly GST returns when the cash starts flowing in?
In terms of Blogs....umm google search "nz music blog", email people info, done.
my posts are long, they make not great sense.
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The net cant generate that income to feedback to NZoA or police copyright so i cant see NZoA, APRa/RIANZ biting the hand that feeds them.
NZONAIR don't get any money from radio so that is moot point. APRA and RIANZ must both be very interested in the net at the moment. In fact Last Fm are trying to work an international royalty scheme for online radio at the moment. Its very confusing thoough!
BTW who is cheap hip and young enough to qualify for indy input to NZoA ? I'd say mikee from loop but i wouldn't trust that dodgy lil fucker anymore than i do BS to make decisions solely on merit and besides he would have an obvious vested interest in his own roster plus he's from welli ...hehe
Well a label manager of any indie would have obvious bias (but would Ben Howe be great!). I think it would be best to create a revolving cast of indy know it alls to spread the money to different circles. Say Andrew from cheese on toast, Sir-vere, blink, jason rock pig, errr Gemma Gracewood!
I don't see who gets selected for video funding as being the major issue anyway. What needs to addressed is the responsibility of the radio networks to re-inject ad revenue back into NZ culture.
If there was a say 20% quota of NZ content of ALL radio the shift of power would be instant and programmers would be desperate for NZONAIR to provide them with content.
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i mean 'wouldn't' Ben Howe be great.
I think ben is pretty much the expert on NZ music of the last ten years. He should be the next PM.
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my posts are long, they make not great sense.
uh, I think they do make sense and its a crime that Bright Grey wasn't the smash hit that it screamed out to be, its a song that will be a New Zealand classic (horrible word but you know what I mean) in 2025, which kinda makes the point that radio should have been playing it but missed the boat. How you move the mooring posts to allow Bright Grey to get on the boat (yes, I know, a gruesome bit of third form imagery but there you go) is the question. Maybe you should rename it Bright Gray Bartlett if there is a change of govt, and you're in...
And, despite the digital revolution and all that, radio still matters to get into the public consciousness. Not as much as before but almost.
Having a major record label behind us has achieved occasional plays on the Rock and ZM but nothing approaching being playlisted.
And there I was believing the hype that Flying Nun was a plucky little indie ;)
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Hi Russell, it's me, Matt from Myspace!
I'm providing digital and new media services and consulting to content creators around the world now, it's so exciting!
The internet is cool.
I think I got the start of the idea from your panel actually when I saw how all those rich media people were interested in what I had to say.
When I grow up I want to be a rich media person too.
Firstly I wanted to say I read your white paper and it was awesome. I hope you got paid for that, because I liked it more than I like Opshop.
I got a letter from Brendan too about my blog. It wasn't a mean letter. He just wanted to put me straight because I was doing some rumbling over one of Simon's posts and some other stuff.
I didn't really care that much though because I'm a digital innovator for global markets and stuff, so I'm busy. I just love it!
The main idea I had was funding support for a web 2.0 platform for a NZ music/creative community and digital products and services.
I thought a lot about it but again, I'm way to busy to do it by myself, maybe they should give the money to amplifier to make it better and a more cooler place to hang out.
Needs more web 2.0.
Way way way more.
Oh and i think you pretty much nailed the AK music scene too. Nice one! -
NZONAIR don't get any money from radio so that is moot point.
Are you saying it isnt in a roundabout fashion funded by advertising on traditional broadcast mediums ?
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Ah, nervously harking back to something in the original post that isn't about NZ music...
Took my hubby to On the Conditions etc for his birthday last Saturday and it was one of the best comedy shows I have ever seen. Meek was fantastic, and given that he was also one of the main actors in The Hollow Men, which we saw in April, he is definitely up there as one of my favourite NZ actors at the moment. Someone get that man on Shortie St (or maybe not...)
Lyn has her review of Mero's play over here, and we got into a bit of a discussion about whether Meek's fly was down deliberately or not.
And on the issue of Nats liking it too - on the night we went there were a number of them in the audience, including the MP for Northcote and Messr Farrar (not sitting together I should note).
After an hour of good political satire we went to an attempt to do a NZ Daily Show, called Good Evening NZ, and sadly it was awful. Radar was there too, he will back me up I'm sure. They even made jokes about how their jokes were falling flat. Oh dear.
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That's a very chicken and egg comment to make kyle and I completely understand why you would make it. to answer it though you have to look further back, beyond the name to see why the organisation was started in the first place
Yup. Thanks for the history lesson which I didn't really need. My point was, and remains - you're bagging NZ on Air for doing what they've been told to do - get NZ on air - and done successfully. Bag their masters if you want them to be told to do something else.
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Are you saying it isnt in a roundabout fashion funded by advertising on traditional broadcast mediums ?
yes that is what I am saying.
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you're bagging NZ on Air for doing what they've been told to do
no I'm disputing what brendan says they've been told to do and what the actual documentation freely available on their own website says they're trying to do. I gave you links to back it up, did you not check out the substance of my claims?
I haven't seen any official documentation from brendan that backs up his claim that he is merely in the broadcasting business. This mythical Brief. Have either Russell or Simon seen this document? anything that instructs nz on air on policy?It clearly states on their mission statement that NZ on Air is in the Broadcasting of Culture and Identity business. That's a very important distinction. Its quite plainly written.
I think the concept of NZ on Air is a good one. I think the implementation of it has been insultingly bad.
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so Mr Robbery my point isn't that I think NZONAIR is a great success story but that I don't think they are the problem.
I guess well know in time.
But you can see the basis of my hypothesis that indiscriminant funding can have unforseen consequences.I'll use thisillustration for you.
imagine local music is a natural resource. I guess it is in a way. cultural identity has value. Export wise our difference is our strength.
so if NZ music (as in our voice our culture not just our people playing it) were say the native bush of fiordland. and the dept of conservation (NZ on Air) decided to bring in the forestry industry to manage the resource.
Forestry being the profit driven force they are strip out all the native bush and put in Pines. easier to manage and better returns allegedly.
That's essentially what getting commercial radio to direct funding decisions has done. they stripped out all the difficult kiwi stuff (including your own music which is totally listenable, even the prog rock stuff), and put resources into important trees, um I mean sounds.I'm a socialist and I'm more than happy for my tax dollar to go toward supporting the arts in this tiny country we live in that can't possibly sustain the arts sector without help.
I object to my dollars being pissed against a wall. Infact I'm going to sneak some money form my next tax payment and slip it into your pocket at the next gig, so long as you don't use it to by crack cocaine, I don't think I could handle a manic p foundation album.
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Russell are you avoiding dubmuggas question?
why would you do that, me independent opinion? -
I agree with everything Russell says above,
you didn't agree with the demise of radio or the superiority of internet in the music market place, yet
and there are conflicting emotions I sense in your words,
come, lie down on the couch, tell us about your childhood..... -
me independent opinion?
that would be mr independent opinion,
fast and lose fingers ruined my one liner.point still stands, why are you avoiding the question Russell?
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