Posts by Charles Mabbett
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... that should be diametrically opposed points of view!
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Sam Scott,
when are the Phoenix Foundation going to record a live album?
And when will Conrad Wedde's album be released?
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Rich, I think that's a good point that you make. Most of the mainland Chinese students in NZ are likely to be patriotic because they are relatively privileged.
But there is also a huge amount of arguably misplaced faith in the government within China as well. There have been many demonstrations in China objecting to a perceived bias in the international coverage of the Tibet issue and the torch relay.
Given that most Chinese can't watch CNN and BBC World, it makes you wonder where they are getting that impression from and it is certain that the state media has been taking an editorial slant on Western media coverage for domestic consumption. Just how accurate that perceived bias might be is one for the academics.
I see a parallel situation with the way that many Muslims accuse the West of bias and prejudicial media coverage of the Islamic world.
The truth as always is somewhere in between two diametrically opposite points of view.
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I think the China's critics overlook the fact that while the Olympic Games are a big deal for the government in Beijing, it is equally importantly a huge deal for the Chinese public. So it's hardly surprising that your average Chinese national might take the anti-China demonstrations personally. And for many Chinese, this government has brought prosperity and freedoms that weren't there twenty years ago - such as the privilege of going abroad to study and live. These are not rent-a-demos - they are heartfelt expressions of nationalism.
And on a lesser scale, we've already seen it this year with regards to India. Remember the furore in India and among the desi diaspora over the second cricket test in Sydney? Many Indians and Chinese are becoming increasingly assertive and nationalistic and it is very much linked to their perceptions of their countries as the new superpowers. And we are going to have to live with it.
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Russell - our friend Justin Zhang of Skykiwi is in this South China Morning Post article about the torch relay in Canberra.
I saw him in Auckland ten days ago. He told me he would be in Canberra to show his support for the Games. He is now based in Sydney and running the Skykiwi equivalent there.
I can't find the original SCMP website article but it has been reprinted here:
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oh for goodness sake Tom. I know many former mainland Chinese international students and they are now proud New Zealanders.
Does this mean that ethnic South Asians shouldn't go along and support India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan in cricket matches against the Black Caps?
Does this mean that many of the former Brits can't support England Wales et al or people born in South Africa shouldn't support the Proteas and the Springboks?
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The Grace Wang story is disturbing. She's a mainland Chinese student at Duke Universtity in the US who has found herself at the centre of a nationalistic storm.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89803198
http://home.wangjianshuo.com/archives/20080423_grace_wang_called_a_traitor.htm
The thing about China is that it is not strictly true to say that protests don't happen. I think they are evidently 'discouraged' but there were an estimated 40,000 demonstrations in China last year over issues such as unemployment, land seizures, environmental degradation, corrupt officials etc. The government does cover news of these protests up but they're happening.
However the disconnect that seems to be happening here is Chinese view attempts to discredit the Olympic Games as trying to sabotage China's attempt to show how much it has modernised and 'arrived' so to speak. But in the eyes of the West, the Olympic Games are only one aspect of how China needs to show it is adjusting to its growing responsibilities as a super power.
But without apologising for China and the actions of its patriotic diaspora around the world, I do think the comparisons with Nazi Germany are wildly inaccurate. China isn't militarily expansionist in the way the Nazis were and the Chinese leadership is extremely sensitive to the way the world views it. I note with some optimism that China has made overtures to the 'Dalai Lama clique' for talks. I hope these talks are more than window dressing but it does reveal that the Olympic torch debacle has hurt the country's image.
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I loved Marcus Lush's comment on Radio Live yesterday morning in an interview with Paul spoonley - something along the lines of "1995 called and said can we have our debate back?"
Tom, you raise an interesting issue about the lack of debate about immigration but to a certain extent forces beyond New Zealand's control are shaping this country's demographic future.
I think we all agree that we have to have an immigration policy that is colour blind but New Zealand can (and has) implemented a higher threshold for English language skills.
But when half of Asia has a strong English language heritage - think Singapore, Malaysia, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Burma, Hong Kong and Bangladesh - and the other half is embracing English language learning like crazy - think China and Korea - it is inevitable that more Asians are going to qualify.
Put that together with the meteoric growth in wealth and incomes in Asia and it seems improbable to prevent immigration from Asian countries unless the country implements an essentially racist immigration policy like in the White Australia and White New Zealand days or unless New Zealand can stem the outward flow of skilled workers.
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In relation to the segregated communities issue, there's an interesting figure that I've come across in a study called Diverse Auckland by Ward Friesen at the University of Auckland that will be released next week.
"As well as a diversification of migrant sources, the identities of the population within New Zealand will continue to diversify. In 2006, about 10 percent of the New Zealand population identified with more than one broad ethnic group, and this was especially the case for people aged less than 15 years. The Asian population identifying with more than one broad ethnic group was slightly lower at 8 percent but 18 percent of those under 15 years of age had more than one ethnic identity. Thus over time an increasing proportion of the Asian population will also have European, Maori, Pacific and/or other identities."
This kind of subtlety about how New Zealand society is changing just wouldn't feature in Peter Brown's thinking. I doubt it would even make sense to him. But the implications are clear, increasing intermarriage between races and that's got to be a good thing.
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I felt the Campbell Live interview had too high a setting on 'outraged'. I think a better strategy might have been to give Brown more and more rope until the inevitable inconsistencies and contradictions of his argument manifested themselves further.
While Campbell did point out that the projected increase in the Asian population would include a significant proportion of New Zealand born Asians, i felt he could have really driven the point home that the United Kingdom was currently New Zealand's largest single source of migrants.
The other thing Brown could have been challenged on was his assertion that Asians would in the future outnumber Maori. Can someone tell me how Chinese and Indians (the two largest Asian sub groups in New Zealand but also with little in common culturally, linguistically, historically and socially) can be presented as an accumulation of homegeneous people that will overrun Maori. What a specious and dishonest argument!