Posts by BenWilson
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The high level of general agreement over whether or not Citizen Kane is a better film than Robot Monster (1953) would seem to suggest that there is some objective basis for value, no?
Or it suggests that we have a homogeneous view on the matter. Perhaps people from other cultures might think Robot Monster kicks some arse. Kids might too. Robots and monsters think it's an assault on their dignity, of course.
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3410, the discussion may not cause the truth to be made, in the case of objective truths, but it could help for some of those truths to be discovered and/or communicated. But for subjective truth (depending on the context of the subject - is it an individual, or a group?) it's not so clear. Perhaps the individual or the group does set their own reality by some form of discussion?
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He is losing you, Rich, because he is talking bollocks. Pirsig is claiming that aesthetic values are objective truths;
I couldn't be sure on that point. It came across to me that he was trying to say that the aesthetic value was in the quality of the way you interacted with the object. He was fond of the word "gumption". Which suggests that a stone wall can be a great work of art if you look at it the right way.
But perhaps I was reading in a little too much Zen - IIRC there is some parable about one of the Patriarchs staring at a wall for years, that it was a deep and profound thing to do. But the lesson in such parables may not be at all what one thinks, particularly in a ... practice? philosophy? tradition? method? ... such as Zen Buddhism.
My own opinion is that it's not clear either way, whether aesthetic truth is objective. It could be objective, but impossible to know, or nobody does know, or it is known, but it is not known that it is known. Or it could be subjective. I'm not sure that exhausts the possibilities.
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Rich, I have read it, and there have been some discussions on it. Search will find them.
I thought he drew some interesting parallels between Zen and some western philosophy (which most of the book was about). I guess his "Quality" is meant to be "The Zen", although my gut feeling is that anyone versed in Zen would probably disagree about Zen as a Platonic Form. It seems almost to entirely miss the point of Zen to spend so long constructing an argument for it, when the bulk of the teachings by Zen masters seem to be about giving away the desire to understand it in those terms.
Which is not to say they are right, but it did suggest that the book was a bit of a gyp in its grandiose title.
After getting over that, I thought some interesting points were made, particularly about the ways we can connect with the artifacts around us. His case study is the motorbike, and he suggest that the different ways people interact with their bike hint at the way they interact with the world in general. Those inclined to treat the bike as a black box will be frustrated by it when it breaks, which (if it is an American bike) it will do all the time. Those who choose to understand how it works will feel deeply connected to it, not only when they are fixing it, but also when they are riding it, feeling the failures before they become catastrophic, nurturing it along.
There's some truth to this - I was reading this book whilst learning about hardware and network maintenance, something that had always previously been Somebody Else's Problem. I did notice a deeper feeling of connection to computers arising from it.
But it wore off. The level of connection can only go so deep without becoming a full-time job (which it was already), and even then it must stop at parts which are beyond any practicality of being fixed, like CPUs, drives, etc. Continual frustration is still to be found dealing with subsystems, and there's really only so much time to immerse yourself into every device you work with. Treating things as black boxes is the modern way, it's the only way you can create the gigantic edifices we work with, on, around, every day.
In immersing myself in technology, for instance, I neglect deeper immersion in other things. Like literary or film analysis, for instance.
Which comes back to this discussion about Avatar. Surely, it is deeply satisfying to some people to analyze certain things about the movie, and if they find it lacking in those dimensions, then they'll think it poor quality. They might also think it rather poor of other people not to rate those factors quite so highly. For myself, I found the technical side of the film extremely rich and deep and felt that simply dismissing those things as if they are a given these days, rather than the brilliant work of hundreds of people working over years on something really, really hard, and pulling it off, as similarly poor. To me, it scarcely mattered that the story was simple, a children's story, perhaps.
So to that end, I guess ultimately, if Gio wants to keep hacking away at how shit it is, that's fine. From his point of view, those who enjoyed it are like the motorbike riders who just wanted to ride the bike, and enjoyed the fact that it had lots of new mod-cons, without really noticing that the engine putters in a way suggestive of a tendency to overheat. They miss something, which to him is important. And that's fair enough. From other points of view, he may simply not have appreciated the mod-cons so much, not rating them as a valuable part of the biking experience at all. The new features meant nothing to him. Those points of view will think he missed something, that he failed to connect too.
So, to be fair to Gio and the other Avatar skeptics, I must conclude that continuing to analyze the poorer parts of Avatar is all in good fun in the end. It is flawed in any number of dimensions.
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I've just phoned a friend in Washington....he blamed Al-Queda
Lock it in! Save up "Ask the audience" for the Wellywood sign, and the 50:50 for "Is Key ambitious, relaxed, concerned or away?"
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You know, I'm beginning to warm to the damn thing...
I think the writing on the sign should be the very first thing decided by the glorious leader of the supercity. My petition to him will be "All your city are belong to US"
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I'm totally sick of the Auckland papers and commentators blaming "Wellington" for this mess
Yeah, it's really Washington behind it all.
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Once GST rates have actually come in, once the supercity is a complete fuckup, then people will turn on National. Until then, nothing will happen in the polls at all.
I think they get 3 free passes first. In the first, they blame the Supercity on Labour. In the second, they blame it on the bureaucracy. In the third, they blame it on ACT, and lose 3.4%. In the last, they blame it on the people, and that's when they get turned on.
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See, we can't directly communicate. Only emote. Ah, the delicious irony!
:x ]:)
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That's quite a radical position, Ben.
I don't reckon. I think it might even be the norm.
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