Posts by David Haywood
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Just emerged from working furiously to meet a deadline, and now have to work furiously to meet another in a few hours -- so a very quick reply to a point that must urgently be addressed...
Dr Giovanni Tiso wrote:
...you tell me how it happened that you got Christine Ryan to read a snippet of something I wrote on PAS on her show as being the work of a "Dr. Giovanni Tiso"?
I think it's a remnant of my undergraduate reflex to address anyone scarily clever -- who possesses a doctorate -- by their title. Hence, when I'm visualizing certain PAers in my head, I always think (for example) of Dr Tiso, Dr Gracewood, and Dr Creon.
On reflection -- in these particular instances -- it may be because you all do super-clever stuff with literature that (I know for a fact) I can't do. For instance, I don't have the foggiest notion of what comparative literature even is; I'm not entirely sure how to spell 'comparative' for starters.
When I read a book, my analysis is something in the vein of: "I thought this was a cool book for reasons I can't express in any concrete sense, and I really liked the bit with the picnic on Box Hill". Or: "I thought this book sucked for reasons I can't express in any concrete sense, and I really hated the bit about the Gruffalo, which was the entire fucking thing."
As further evidence on this topic, I don't visualize any of my colleagues in engineering and science as Dr X or Y. When I'm talking to my friend Dr Gschwendtner, I'm like: "Hey Gschwendtner, it was awesome when you punched that Canadian in the head during the ice hockey match". Or when I'm talking to my friend Dr Kearns: "Hey Kearns, it was awesome when you called Noam Chomsky a pussy during that linguistics seminar." And so on.
To be fully honest, I especially think of Dr Gracewood as such because she's not only scarily clever, she's just plain scary. I don't know how many of you are aware of her dissipated youth, which was spent on such activities as: reading war comics, shooting street signs with a .22, scrawling 'Angus Young 4 Eva' on bus shelters, and chewing gum.
And then she's emailing me: "My image on Public Address is too nice. I'm a bad dude. I'm trouble. I'm a hard bastard. I could kill you right now, Haywood -- over the internet."
I don't want to risk doing anything that might be interpreted as 'dissing' her.
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Dr Haywood
Oh, and the 'Dr' line was meant to be a wry joke -- note the smiley face (first time I've ever used one). In real life, I don't use my official title (even in front of a lecture theatre).
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Thanks Mike -- that's a very useful tip!
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Fergus:
Many thanks for that -- very interesting to see those figures... and very cool that you're getting into e-books...
You're right about the $24.95 novel. The original Foo talk was prepared late last year, and even then I'd started to note that prices were drifting upward. But one of our books is still $24.95, and thus I had the exact price breakdown at my fingertips...
Russell Brown wrote:
It needs a catchy, memorable name -- say, "Bob". So authors can say "It's on my Bob page".
That's an excellent point -- will add that to my notes (should anyone ever want to look at them). I should've seen that myself.
Also a very good point about stationary, etc. Likewise making it as easy as possible for the authors - I have some quite nifty ideas on that, I think (in terms of the site design).
Lucy Stewart wrote:
you can list on Amazon all you like but the stock is so big and the eearch system is so bollocks that unless it's reasonably popular or people are looking for it specifically the chances of anyone finding it are low.
I should've explained that better. I've seen these NZ books already listed on Amazon at crazily high prices with huge delivery times -- but, as you point out, perhaps they're just having a punt because the chances of anyone buying it are so low (except for those who specifically want only that book).
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Fergus Barrowman wrote:
I'm sorry if I came across as rude. I didn't mean to.
No worries, Fergus -- it's water off a duck's back after my stint at Radio NZ! I only mentioned it because I rather admired its elegance as an insult (although, of course, I entirely believe you that any apparent insult was quite unintended).
David, did I say $5 minimum? I meant to say $5 average, across a mixed list. Also, most books are printed on bulkier paper than your estimates are based on -- because the customer seems to equate bulk with value.
Yes, well I guess academic publishing is a different kettle of fish than that average $24.95 NZ novel. And, of course, I should acknowledge that most of *your* writers will be making enough money because they're paid academic salaries while they write. (As I could've done once -- if only I'd wanted to write dull books about entropy and suchlike.)
With regard to your numbers for mass production:
Print run 1000 2000 3000
Prepress 6000 6000 6000
Print 6000 8000 10000
Total 12000 14000 16000
Unit cost $12 $7 $5.33
RRP (x5) incl GST $67.50 $40 $30I don't know whether this includes shipping or not -- or what sort of book this is -- but it's interesting to compare these prices with print-on-demand for the famous average $24.95 novel (250 pages).
Now this wouldn't apply to fancy academic publishing (more for your cheapish Penguins), but you can source such a book as print-on-demand for US$3.85 per unit. You can even get print-on-demand in your windy city (though not nearly as good quality) for NZ$10.00 per book.
If you can do print-on-demand in-house (a publisher would need to be selling quite a few per day to make it cost-effective), then that would reduce the price to around NZ$4.70 per book.
If the latter option, considering that you no longer have to pay shipping to get the book to your company, or warehousing costs while all those books are waiting to sell, or the opportunity cost of having that money sitting around as books -- well, then I'm surprised that publishers of NZ novels aren't doing this.
Also, I wonder why NZ publishers don't use Amazon's print-on-demand service to list their novels in the US? That would reduce costs (and increase profits) enormously for those sales.
I know that this is approaching the problem from an engineering production rather than a publishing perspective (and I suspect that the thoughts of engineers/physicists are beyond the pale in the publishing world), but it would be interesting if you (or Mike) were able to comment on that.
Mike's points about publishing economics are all correct in substance, even if something's made him hot under the collar.
Sure -- it's just that they had nothing to do with what I'd suggested! And, of course, I have looked into (and found/estimated numbers) on all of that. I wouldn't dare do a presentation at Foo Camp -- to the brightest and most entrepreneurial people in NZ -- without doing all my homework.
To add just one more that hasn't been mentioned yet: if all the authors are acting as independent retailers, how do you insulate your personal customer satisfaction rating from authors who are slow to fill orders, or cut corners on packaging so books arrive damaged?
That's a good question. The only answer I've been able to come up with is to give customers the opportunity to comment (i.e. complain) about the quality of their transaction. If a particular author continues to underperform (after some encouragement/feedback) then they'd have to be asked politely to leave.
And, of course, there's also the tricky problem about multi-book purchases from different authors. Ordinarily you'd pass on the discount on shipping -- but any discount would represent a real income loss in this case.
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Ngaire BookieMonster wrote:
Having posted out 13,000+ books in the last 3 years I'd have loved to have been able to send every single one of them for just $2 p&h. Unfortunately it's not quite that simple.
Wow, 13,000 books -- you are very aptly named!
Yes, hardbacks, oversized books, etc. will cost more. But remember, I was talking about the average $24.95 NZ novel.
A couple of years ago, I measured the thickness of a bunch of $24.95 novels. It turns out that the typical novel has to have more than 300 pages to exceed the 20 mm thickness (when combined with a waterproof wrap and envelope).
That's actually a longish novel (most publishers seem to aim for a page count in the 200s) and so the average $24.95 novel can fit into a C5 envelope and be posted for $1.80 -- I assure you. The rest of the $2.50 in p & h is for the envelope, waterproof wrap, and labour at $20/hr.
You also mentioned tracked parcels. Well, this doesn't make economic sense in the context of author-distributors. To give an example based on that "respectably selling" book:
2,000 copies as tracked parcels @ $4.50 each = $9,000
vs.
2,000 copies as letters @ $1.80 each = $3,600Now given that the trade price of that average book is $8.36, then you'd have to lose 646 books to make the tracked price worthwhile! To repeat: 646 books -- a third of all the books you send!
For the record, I've never lost a single book yet... thanks NZ Post...
This may not be true, of course, for very expensive books -- or for rare second-hand books that can't be replaced. But for that average $24.95 book, it is certainly true.
I think the different numbers that I get (from, say, Fergus's claimed $5.00 minimum to post) is that I'm approaching the problem from an engineering design-for-manufacture point of view.
You cut every corner that can reasonably be cut -- and I'll put this into perspective for you: one of my former colleagues was declared a hero for an innovation that saved General Motors 70 cents per engine on their SUV line.
So when Emma was saying that the size of PA Books had nothing to do with the arcane rules at NZ Post, she was -- as you will have guessed -- joking in the extreme. We optimized our standard size of book (and typeface-sizing algorith) to minimize the cost of manufacture of each book as well as the cost of postage. It's all very carefully worked out, believe me.
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Mike Bradstock:
Right, this is the first chance I've had to reply.
I realize that you're in a rapidly-changing industry, Mike, probably the most it's changed since Gutenburg. And I'm sure that this makes you (and Fergus Barrowman) feel concerned and perhaps threatened by new technology and new ideas. I'm guessing this is why you haven't read my post properly -- you've just seen red at the first few paragraphs, and then fired-off an angry response.
Firstly, the price break-down. I've worked in senior roles on multi-million dollar engineering projects, and I assure you that I understand the difference between revenue and net profit. My price breakdown is -- quite obviously -- showing the revenue streams to the main parties who benefit from the sale of the book. OF COURSE I KNOW that the publisher has to pay for printing, shipping, warehousing, and publicity; and OF COURSE I KNOW the bookseller has to pay for staff, rent, utilities, and so on -- but that wasn't relevant to the point I was making.
The point in showing the price breakdown -- if you'd read further -- was to demonstrate that the revenue normally going to the retailer was potentially capturable by the author in the context of an author-owned ONLINE RETAILING (NOT PUBLISHING) operation, i.e. an online operation that was competing with bookshops. The key selling-point of such an author-owned bookshop (for buyers of NZ literature) would be that buying from this shop provides a greater income to authors, i.e. a feel-good factor. By the way, as I have experience in this field, I know that such a system can, in fact, make a *much* larger profit than retailers with physical bookshops.
You have assumed (at great length) in your comment that I am against publishers. I said no such thing in my blog, and here's what I said in the comments (top of the page where you first commented):
I certainly don't have anything against NZ publishers -- they do a very good job (generally speaking) with the literary side of the business, if not being the sharpest at adapting to new technology.
The concept I put forward in the blog -- again, if you'd read further -- applied to authors published by regular NZ publishers (such as Penguin and Random House). Consider the fact that top NZ authors such as Keri Hulme and Maurice Gee can't even make the median income from their writing. These are the sort of writers who would most benefit from such a scheme -- probably to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. Again, to emphasize my point, this would be through their regular publisher as per normal (with the books purchased from the publisher at normal trade prices).
To deal with some specific instances where you have misrepresented me:
RE:
According to Haywood's scenario, the author gets $2.50 (actually it's sometimes less, sometimes more)
Yes, I realize that it varies, of course -- the price breakdown was for "the average $24.99 New Zealand novel". That's the typical (i.e. on average) author's share of the revenue stream for such a book.
RE:
As for Haywood's figure of 2,000 for a first print run ... I'm afraid it's usually not even that many.
I didn't say that it was usually that many -- I said that this was the figure for "a respectably selling New Zealand novel", i.e. from a fairly successful NZ writer.
RE:
Hayward doesn't even understand GST, as I will show later.
Mike, I have a Ph.D in Energy engineering/Thermodynamics. I've written the sort of academic papers that people need a postgraduate degree in physics/engineering even to begin to understand. The same can be said for the patents I've registered. I think I can grasp the concept of GST.
Isn't it slightly more likely that you haven't properly read/understood what I was saying?
And, by the way, my name is spelt 'Haywood'.
RE:
Haywood bleats abjectly about the GST, $3.26, being greater than the author's cut, $2.50. But what's that got to do with anything?
The point I was making, of course, is that nothing else could exist (publishers, bookshops, book tax) without the author to produce the book in the first place. So there is an irony that they get the smallest share of the revenue stream -- from which, of course, costs such as office rental, office insurance & utilities, office equipment, etc. must be deducted to get their net profit (or, more likely in NZ, net loss).
So in that sense, my point has everything to do with anything.
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Mr Haywood was whinging about what a bad deal the author gets...
I wasn't whinging, Mike -- I was merely pointing out the facts of life for a writer. And, more importantly, I was suggesting an approach whereby that situation could be improved.
And, by the way, it's Dr Haywood to you, not Mr Haywood :)
RE:
... no sales reps, no promotions, and no warehousing; no repping, picking, packing, posting, invoicing, dealing with returns and credits and accounts. I think that the costs of these essential services would be the downfall of his proposed co-op.
Again, if you'd read the blog, you'd see that I propose an online bookshop with each author acting as an independent retailer. So apart from shipping/handling and accounts/invoicing (which can be handled automatically in software as we do at PA Books already) none of these things are necessary.
RE:
Try and upscale what you are doing to an operation where you have a number of staff in specialised roles... and the whole economic scenario changes... sending out an order of 10 different books to the same shop costs less per book than posting 10 orders of one book to 10 shops.
If you'd read the post you'd know that I was proposing an online bookshop with each author acting as an independent retailer. So there's no scaling-up of the physical operation for each author, except for the software that acts as an aggregator for the sales (and possibly purchasing) -- although scaled-up software will be a biggish job, of course.
And there's no posting of books to bookshops because it's an ONLINE retailer, i.e. selling direct to the public.
Finally, to politely discuss your last point:
This is why I loathe the bloggosphere so much -- it gives irresponsible people the freedom to say anything they like without any responsibility or consequences... if anyone else has anything hostile and unconstructive they'd like to say to me then have the courage to do it directly.
In case you didn't realize, the blog you're commenting on is part of NZ's most widely-read liberal website (about 50,000 unique readers per month according to our site statistics). When you registered, you will have noticed that we request people to use their real names, and suggest that they list their email address and website so that they can be contacted off-forum -- precisely to avoid the issues that you have mentioned.
Also note that you agreed to the following policy when you registered:
While we encourage vigorous debate, we require forum users to refrain from personal abuse and aggressive behaviour towards others.
You obviously feel that you've been treated terribly on this website. But please look at your behaviour from the point of view of our other readers:
1. You jumped in with angry and aggressive comments WITHOUT even properly reading the post that you were commenting about. As a consequence you completely misunderstood the point of the post, and then became angrier and more aggressive when this was pointed out to you.
2. You used unnecessarily rude language such as "bleats abjectly" and "whining" to make your misplaced points (at least Fergus Barrowman's rudeness was more oblique). And then you became offended when people responded in a similar manner.
So perhaps it's not so surprising that you met with the response that you did.
At any rate, I encourage you to stay and contribute (calmly and politely) to the debate. As I said at the beginning of this message, it's quite understandable that -- given your job -- you feel concerned and perhaps threatened by new technology and new ideas.
And I'm sure, of course, that your reading comprehension skills are much better when not on a subject that pushes your buttons quite this much.
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I'm rushed off my feet and won't have time to reply until tonight.
But to Mike Bradstock... you haven't understood my concept AT ALL. I'm not talking about publishers (or their costs). I'm talking about author's getting in on the chunk that normally goes to retail -- as Emma has already pointed out.
You've also misunderstood/misread my figures.
And a quick piece of polite advice, Mike. I wouldn't leap in with rude and patronizing comments without reading the post properly -- it really isn't a great look.
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Jeffrey Holman wrote:
Publishers operate differently (in my case, from Penguin to Steele Roberts)...
Thanks for your kind message, Jeffrey. I certainly don't have anything against NZ publishers -- they do a very good job (generally speaking) with the literary side of the business, if not being the sharpest at adapting to new technology.
But naturally my sympathies lie with trying to get a much better deal for the writers...
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Glenn Pearce wrote:
The risk of carrying the stock is of course pushed back to the Author under this model and every few unsold items cuts drastically into your profits.
The way I see it, the individual authors would (almost) be running a JIT system, so they'd keep stock to the absolute minimum. I don't anticipate that they'd ever have unsold items -- although, at worst, they may have books sitting on their shelf for several months.
When you distribute your storage like this it means that lots of the normal costs disappear, i.e. no warehouse rent, no searching for stock, no warehouse staff, etc. The author just reaches into their box of books, pulls out one, and bungs it into the post.
This is pretty much the system we run at PA Books already, and haven't found customer questions to be a problem. But yes, it could happen... and might need to be addressed.
What's the story with the house ? I thought you were relatively unscathed (ablution issues aside) ?
Relatively unscathed compared to many of our neighbours (whose houses have to be bulldozed), but -- apart from the minor damage to roof, gutters, etc. caused by falling chimneys -- our foundations have been destroyed.
So this means lifting up the house, moving it out the way, putting in new foundations that go down 3 metres to the gravel layer, putting the house back into position again, reconnecting it to all the services, and then patching-up all the structural damage caused by moving it around.
It all adds up! And it all takes a lot of organizing...