Up Front: Are We There Yet?
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I don't particularly see why anyone would want to get married who isn't religious
I am clearly the only non-religious person in New Zealand who really liked getting (non-religiously) married.
(In Las Vegas. In black. In fifteen minutes. By a man in a blue suit with white puffed-up hair like a televangelist. Didn't change my name. Oddly, still rather moved by the entire ridiculous experience, though. Almost cried. I suppose you make your own meaning when it comes to these things. Which is kind of the point.)
And of course: well said, Emma.
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I don't dare go down the whisky-snob path because of how much my gin-snobbery is costing me. But if you want to ruin your life, make yourself two g&ts (your existing method meets with approval) - one with Gordon's, and one with South. Drink some of the South first.
If this doesn't make the Gordon's taste like second-hand lighter fluid, you're probably okay and you don't need to worry about gin snobbery.
Choose a hot summers day to carry out this rigorous test. Make sure you taste carefully then taste some more to confirm impressions. Get some friends over to assist with the measuring and pouring of the tonic water. Remember to have some music on as well. Kinda Motown meets R'n'B diva supremes style. And throw in a disco ball while you're at it too.
This test is robust and will give you the results you are looking for.
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Great post Emma, thank you!
And Craig:
My father was a forty nine year old Maori Anglican widower who married a white Catholic woman quite literally young enough (27) to be his daughter.
Now, there are plenty of people who find inter-racial, or inter-faith marriage distasteful -- the latter is still quietly discouraged by the Church. Some certainly weren't shy in expressing their opinion that it was somewhat vulgar of my my father to marry a much younger woman just over a year after the death of his first wife.
The state, however, had no legitimate interest in any of the above.
Well put.
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This test is robust and will give you the results you are looking for.
Okay, at this level I'm going to insist that the tasting include some Tanqueray and Bombay Sapphire as well. <wank>They have different botanicals, so you end up with quite a different flavour. South actually isn't my favourite, but it's the smoothest, and so the easiest way to highlight the taste difference between different gins.</wank>
Vodka is vile.
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Tanqueray also has the most songs written featuring it. (This may or may not be because it has a more musical-sounding name, though.)
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And if you find the idea of my marrying my male partner so repulsive,
Actually the contrary. I love marriages and CUs. I just went to a lovely CU of two friends. I just can't help enjoying the spectacle of two people who care for each other standing up with their friends and declaring it.
As for the arguments about same sex marriage, can't say much more than Emma.
Personally I'd just like to see a simple contract system as the only thing that the government is involved in - for all the rest it's about the preferences of the couple (or more) involved as to whether they want white dresses (yay) or just want to sign up at the lawyers (boring boo hiss).
However, as long as other countries use Marriage as a title we kind of have to use it and use it for everyone and anyone who wants it.
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I am clearly the only non-religious person in New Zealand who really liked getting (non-religiously) married.
:waves:
I did it twice (to the same woman even!) in the space of 2 weeks. A great, non-religious, celebrant-officiated NZ one at a good friends restaurant, followed by a very COE blessing in an English Cathedral. While the religious bit of the second one didn't really speak to me, it did speak to a number of people in our broader family and was frankly still a damn good time.
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I am clearly the only non-religious person in New Zealand who really liked getting (non-religiously) married.
My actually wedding was a blast . You'd have loved it. Here's one of the official pictures.
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oooh..South is pretty nice.
Do you use tonic? Water? Limes or lemons?
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Thanks for that, Emma. I hope that your logic is suitable to persuade DarlingWife that I should try a ...
Given the original topic of the post I was wondering what the end of sentence was going to bring
... gin tasting
oh.
I'm much more of a whisky, bourbon and rum kind of person. But for some reason I really want to like gin.
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I have clear memories of returning to Wellington in late 2000, early 2001, when the cocktail revival was flourishing, and ordering a martini. It was tasteless. And so were several of its successors, in different bars. I was puzzled as I saw the Tanqueray and Bombay Sapphire bottles (and the heinous prices). Gradually I realised the terrible truth: I like the taste of cheap gin.
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It's all about assets Richard. And their protection.
Not entirely, Peter. I know awful fags like me and Andrew Sullivan only want civil marriage (please note the emphasis) so we can be fabulous Trojan horses destroying the institution of marriage from inside the walls, but I actually deeply, profoundly respect marriage.
I look at people like my maternal grandparents (who were married for fifty eight years), and see that they stood up before their family and friends and their God and made a profound commitment to each other.
And I don't think I'm talking out of school in saying my Grandfather could be... well, prickly (folks say I'm more like him that either of us wanted to admit). But (apologies for getting all Athena from BSG here) they made a choice, and stuck it no matter how hard it got. If you can't do that -- won't even try -- how the hell do you end up with anything worth having?
Now, I mean absolutely no disrespect to folks like Russell and Fiona who (IMNSHO) are raising two absa-fraking-loutely fabulous young men, and are good folks without benefit of clergy. And as I've no desire to buy a shotgun and open shop as a gay wedding planner, I totally respect those (gay and straight) for whom "living in sin" or CUP-cakedom is working out fine.. I've got my own shit to deal with before I get judgemental on anyone else.
I think that's what really scares the shit out of folks -- and not only straight evangelical homophobes -- who've massively invested in the idea of homosexuals as "the other". Feckless, drug-addled promiscuous freaks who value nothing except the next high, the next orgasm, the instant gratification of every infantile appetite regardless of consequences.
I don't want to pretend for a moment that getting married (or civil unionised) makes you any kind of saint. But it also stands as one hell of a rebuke to a lot of anti-gay stereotypes.
End of rant -- apologies Emma.
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Danielle, you are not alone. I know it's not the done thing for a bloke to say it, but I really, really enjoyed our wedding at the Wood Green Registry Office and the rest of the day. People that know you (and/or your partner) there to celebrate for the pair of you, everyone hoping that it will be a success and no-one being judgemental (to our faces, at least). Quite one of the best days of my life - so far.
(And the source of the gin-buckets mentioned upthread - presents from my then work-mates. Only 2 have survived the intervening 23+ years and a relocation to the other side of the world.)
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the Readers Digest Version: If I ever marry its not going to be all about the tax credits and putting the hurt on people who go for the cheap end of the register. (Fair warning, though: Waffles are evil. Waffle irons are not designed for internal use, but I'm game even if you're not.)
Carry on.
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Do you use tonic? Water? Limes or lemons?
Tonic, I like it realllllly dry, and lots of lime. Though bruised mint is also nice, especially on really hot summer days.
End of rant -- apologies Emma.
Don't apologise, I heartily agree. The fact that I've supported and personally chosen CU doesn't mean I don't completely support the right of every person to choose what works for them. Their reasons, their level of emotional investment, all that shit? None of my damn business.
(It may be worth noting that I also come from a family that's suffered some deep shit over inter-faith marriage and people not being able to mind their own damn business when it comes to other people's relationships.)
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Hang on, I'm married - where are these assets and tax breaks?!
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the Church is still the originator ("tangata whenua"?) of marriage and has a certain power of veto.
Nonsense! The merest acquaintance with say, the customs and laws of the Roman republic would alert you to the existence of confarreatio and diffarreatio, the forms of marriage used by the ancient patrician families, long, long before the Romans were particularly aware of the existence of people who called themselves Jews, and long before the birth of Christ.
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Hey don't get me wrong, I love weddings!! Best parties ever, usually. Just a shame someone has to get married to have a wedding...
And the (possibly) facetious aside about assets, well maybe not so facetious... isn't getting married a bit like owning someone else?
But no gushy responses about how great it is to be married, thanks. I've got to eat soon.
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isn't getting married a bit like owning someone else?
No. Not even a tiny bit. You're thinking of slavery.
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Well thanks to Deborah and Emma for further bulwarking the defence against even that argument.
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As a non-married but happily-coupled straight man (for 12 years) the only thing that annoys me is that if we were to get married, we would get a truckload of pressies from friends and relatives.
So while I keep my "marriage = meh" attitude I don't get any serving platters or salad tongs or money towards overseas trips. Total gip.
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And folks who like arguing from history where marriage is concerned, might want to consider the odds that they don't have to climb far up the family tree to find a man or two (dozen) who'd now have form for, at best, statutory rape.
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No. Not even a tiny bit. You're thinking of slavery.
Hey, you said it...
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isn't getting married a bit like owning someone else?
No. Not even a tiny bit. You're thinking of slavery.
I'm trying to picture what would happen to anyone foolish enough to try the "get in the kitchen and cook me some eggs, bitch" routine on Emma or Deborah. Is it bad that visions of extreme ultra-violence make me giggle?
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Well thanks to Deborah and Emma for further bulwarking the defence against even that argument.
Ah... yes... now that I've actually read the thread instead of leaping in all barrels firing I see that Emma had already thoroughly trounced that non-argument.
[slinks away]
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