"The Terrorism Files"
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..in the form. Ha ha, in 1983.
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RB wrote:
There has been an order of magnitude more hysteria from supporters of those arrested than from the general public.
And then there's the police, who've been running around locking people up for a month, calling them terrorists, and illegally disseminating private and prejudicial material to the media.
Something which 90% of the public seems to believe, according to my ever faulty late night memory. What's more hysterical than thinking the hills are full of Maori terrorists in league with protesters everywhere? Seems to pretty much fit the definition square on, in light of who was arrested and what they actually did, like an absolute and undeniable lack of any terrorism of any sort.
Oh, right, but thinking the cops just believe their own bullshit, that's hysterical, like Ross Meurant.
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David: As an interesting comparison, at the country school in Oz I attended kids were taught to use guns, understand basic military tactics, and to not ever trust the police under any circumstances.
Seriously. Yr 10 sport option, history stuff, and civics course.
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What about talk of merely vanquishing her?
I'm all for giving Helen - and the rest of the incumbent Gummint - a right royal smiting at the ballot box, but even there I'd like the rhetorical temperature turned down a bit on all sides this time around. Well, a boy can dream...
Anyway, big ups to folks who've been passionate in all directions but still managed to keep their shit together. It really isn't that hard, is it?
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Irena Asher's family were searched by the terror raid police probably because a member of the family had spent time in Ruatoki.
"Tame Iti has done good work in helping us heal ... He has helped our whanau since the loss of our daughter. He's a good guy. That's the other part - Middle New Zealand are quick to point and judge him and they don't even know the real guy."
Are we Middle New Zealand? The snippets we have seen are out of context. On the other hand, guns WERE fired ... I feel kind of disappointed that this discussion - parts I have had time to read - is a tad one sided.
Please don't shoot me down in flames - I'm only a sheila and I am struggling to be fair minded.
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Some thoughts on media...
Sorry I couldn't post earlier, but I was on the hikoi and then needed to go to work.
It's been clear from the beginning that the police have fully involved in a media war. There were strategic leaks of 'napalm' on the Tuesday after the raids, the gist of the text messages about 'assassination' on the Sunday, along with the police source in the Sunday news who leaked talk of 'assassination of Maori public figures. The leaked affidavit is likely to come from the police. Despite what one commentator reported that Tony Ellis said, I don't believe that the defence have had the affidavit (although they may have had some of the evidence contained within it), although presumably political figures would also have it from the briefings so it may not have just been the police.
I think also the bail hearings were a chance for the police to cherry-pick evidence for the purpose of not just the judges ears, but also to whet the appetite of the media. Certainly in a bail hearing I understand the judge pulled up the police on this, as he picked out another quote from the transcript which directly contradicted the interpretation the police were trying to construct.
I should also point out the police wouldn't hand over full transcripts that they used in court to the defence on the basis that the transcripts might change as they were only rough drafts.
It is interesting to note that the police media unit ( incidentally like local police on the East Cost) according to Alastair Thompson on Scoop were not briefed. Trying to get accurate public information from the police has been particularly tough.
The leaked affidavit contains the most inflammatory material and is cherry picked from the evidence. The media have cherry picked themselves to get the most dramatic material.
The Dom Post report clearly only covers the dramatic 'evidence', and not what they call 'comical', which I believe provides important context to the seriousness of some of the claims. On the evening news, it was breathlessly reported that people wanted to shoot the propellers off George Bush's helicopter. Yeah, those jokes aren't that funny anymore, but they were clearly jokes.
The Dom Post 'expose' was also not at pains to point out what John Campbell said after reading the material that it was only 5-6 people who were talking in a 'disturbing' way. They have happily smeared 16 people and whole communities and movements with this stuff, without feeling the need to put it in even the most basic of context.
The Dom Post wants to be seen as a defender of the public interest still have not asked basic questions like how many raids took place (our estimates are sixty and almost all were Maori)?
In terms of some of the comments by Sophie Wilson about Wellington activists and the media, I think it's worth pointing out that there generally has been good media liaison by Wellington anarchists. The people who have been doing that weren't at the meeting, and we do actually do a lot of media work for campaigns - the people who have spoken are well known to the media ie Lenka Rochford and Sam Buchanan.
While the analysis you mention of a feeling that the media screw you over every time exists, there are plenty of others who are willing to interact. As evidence I'd point to the 128 open day which was extremely successful in terms of presenting the truth of what that community space is about. So much so that the police felt the need to comment in public (as opposed to leak news) that the house was no longer of interest to them.
I understand those meetings have been particularly difficult as there have been mixed understandings of their purpose, a poor venue for the amount of people, and called in a time of crisis where people's homes had been violated and friends taken from them. I heard that last Tuesday's meeting was a lot more focused.
In terms of the media will screw you every time. I participated in the hikoi and I don't believe that there was a fair representation of what went on. I counted around 1500 people tightly packed together for a march. There were kids in strollers, people joining us from the street, and construction workers who made there own placards supporting Tuhoe waving them from building sites.
The New Zealand state is very, very happy to put on a show of haka and Maori martial prowess at any event it can get away with it. The New Zealand public is generally happy with haka being used to start sporting events.
Why is it so disturbing to see the Tuhoe crew using their culture to express their (in my view righteous) feelings of unhappiness, anger and determination.
As for the claim made here that everyone was wearing balaclavas I would estimate there were about 40-50 masked up.
The front of the march was brash, exuberant, and at times angry, but I would ask anyone who say honestly why they felt intimidated by it. I think the answer would reflect more on the person than the nature of the march.
In terms of using Indymedia to determine the state of mind of the activist community is extremely unfair. It is an anonymous open forum which has a very wide editorial policy which can be read on the site. I regularly follow news from it and have done for years, the majority of comments I believe are people who don't normally post there, and are generally not representative of current debates in the community. By and large the majority of people working on this issue are too busy to post there right now. or feverishly working on main features.
I think Asher and the Indy crew are doing a great job of updating the main features and these have been one of the most accurate and up to date sources of information for following what's been going on.
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The New Zealand state is very, very happy to put on a show of haka and Maori martial prowess at any event it can get away with it. The New Zealand public is generally happy with haka being used to start sporting events.
Why is it so disturbing to see the Tuhoe crew using their culture to express their (in my view righteous) feelings of unhappiness, anger and determination.In the early 80s the late great Dalvanius Prime was a government-funded delegate to the MIDEM music fair at Cannes. While he was there he criticised the NZ Government's dismal funding of indigenous culture. Some time after his return to NZ he found himself confronted by an angry Muldoon, who accused him of biting the hand that feeds.
Right, said Dalvanius, next time some visiting dignitary arrives, put the orchestra and the ballet - the ones who soak up most of the cultural funding - out there to provide an official welcome.
According to Dalvanius, Muldoon said "You might have a point there," before amicably dropping the issue.Just lately it's hard to avoud the sense that, under a suppoedly "progressive" government, we're heading rapidly backwards.
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I don't get why some people, with anything to do with the police, jump first to the conspiracy theory.
I don't get it either. Some things being said about the Police are just vile. It's moved well beyond any legitimate holding them to account, it's become a vicious attack by self-proclaimed leftists and activists who like to spend their time thinking up things to be outraged about.
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The front of the march was brash, exuberant, and at times angry, but I would ask anyone who say honestly why they felt intimidated by it. I think the answer would reflect more on the person than the nature of the march.
That's a cop-out, I'm afraid. If you put on a public event of any description then you should be interested in people's reactions; doubly so if what you're doing is a protest about feeling intimidated by the actions of others. You don't protest intimidation by making people feel intimidated, at least not if you want to gain any sympathy.
As for people feeling intimidated, I genuinely believe a good number have. I wasn't there yesterday, but I've spoken with a number of people - mainly women - since yesterday who found the protest really quite threatening.
As for the Haka thing... I think it's a matter of context. If you're on a sports field where confrontation, psychological warfare and opposition is essentially part of the fun then it seems like an excellent expression of all of that. But if you're standing a foot away from the face of a policeman who's just standing still doing their job then it's going to come across as deliberately intimidating, rather than admirable. The Haka is an admirable institution, but there's no real way to argue that it doesn't involve sending off a lot of signals of aggression. As an analogy, I enjoy hardcore punk at times and in the right context watching somebody scream their head off is a beautiful thing. But if you do that right in somebody's face when they've not come to observe you by choice? That's just being a shit.
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We have no idea what other charges the solicitor general may have thought the evidence was sufficient for
But we do know that the police thought the evidence was insufficient to charge them for anything except terrorism, so it's highly unlikely that the solicitor general had a different opinion.
Some things being said about the Police are just vile.
Some things being done by the police are just vile.
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I'll be interested to see the full story on this one...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10476182
Iraena Asher's family and house part of the raid? The potential conspiracy theorys abound...
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The Haka is an admirable institution, but there's no real way to argue that it doesn't involve sending off a lot of signals of aggression. As an analogy, I enjoy hardcore punk at times and in the right context watching somebody scream their head off is a beautiful thing. But if you do that right in somebody's face when they've not come to observe you by choice? That's just being a shit.
Punk 'n pomposity. Have fun, just don't frighten the ladies.
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In terms of the media will screw you every time. I participated in the hikoi and I don't believe that there was a fair representation of what went on.
It's pretty precious to blame the media for the coverage of the Hikoi - if you give them a choice between showing 1450 people marching peacefully and 50 jackasses dressed as terrorists leaping around directly in front of the cameras then anyone with a shred of common sense knows which way the story is going to be told. I know that in theory the decision to dress as terrorists was supposed to be some brilliant witty comment on the police but back in mean ol' reality it was simply stupid and staggeringly self-defeating.
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You don't protest intimidation by making people feel intimidated, at least not if you want to gain any sympathy.
I don't think they are after "sympathy" just a recognition that masked people can be scary amoung other things. I think it was a particularly effective way of making a point. It's theatre. There is a context, they are protesting.
As for the haka they can bloody well use it how they like, who the hell are you to tell Maori that they should save it for the rugby. -
Punk 'n pomposity. Have fun, just don't frighten the ladies.
What's pompous about suggesting that screaming directly in somebody's face is actually quite intimidating? Fuck all, that's what, it's just stating the obvious.
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I know that in theory the decision to dress as terrorists was supposed to be some brilliant witty comment...
they are clearly unfamiliar with Post-Moderism and the role of the Reader in constructing meaning.
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As for the Haka thing... I think it's a matter of context. If you're on a sports field where confrontation, psychological warfare and opposition is essentially part of the fun then it seems like an excellent expression of all of that. But if you're standing a foot away from the face of a policeman who's just standing still doing their job then it's going to come across as deliberately intimidating, rather than admirable.
Personally, Finn, anyone screeching in my face is going to be (more or less) politely but firmly told to step the fuck off. And perhaps its just me, but I find a football match a very strange "context" for any haka - especially if you know a bit about the historical context and meaning of Ka Mate.
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The Dom Post report clearly only covers the dramatic 'evidence', and not what they call 'comical', which I believe provides important context to the seriousness of some of the claims. On the evening news, it was breathlessly reported that people wanted to shoot the propellers off George Bush's helicopter. Yeah, those jokes aren't that funny anymore, but they were clearly jokes.
I remember during the Erebus inquiry the difficulty they had in even interpreting the meaning of the cockpit transcript, which was occurring in a very tight context.
The comment 'I don't like this' by one of the engineers on the flight deck was interpreted by the crash investigators to add to the evidence that the pilot was steering the aircraft in the wrong direction. Justice Mahon said we had no idea what he was talking about. Someone may have just passed him the wrong choice of sandwich.
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I don't think they are after "sympathy" just a recognition that masked people can be scary amoung other things. I think it was a particularly effective way of making a point. It's theatre. There is a context, they are protesting.
Well, if the objective was to make people think that Tuhoe are scary then it might have achieved that. I'm not sure how that fits with the objective of the protest, however.
As for the haka they can bloody well use it how they like, who the hell are you to tell Maori that they should save it for the rugby.
Sure, and people can react to it how the hell they like too. Who are you to tell people that they have to accept somebody shouting in their face because it's somebody else's cultural tradition? It might be my cultural tradition to go around touching people on their heads all the time, doesn't mean that other cultures have to accept it placidly. Having a culture does not absolve people of the responsibility to consider the impact of their actions on others.
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I haven't had breakfast so I am going to try and breathe before I post again, maybe have a cup of tea. In brief I mostly object to you deciding that rugby is the appropriate context for a haka Finn. Some of that stuff about head touching and other peoples cultural traditions, I hear you.
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Finn you seem to be painting Maori into a plastic tiki parody of itself, hollow of any meaning.
The haka yesterday had a true purpose of expressing the hurt & anger Tuhoe feel at what the Police Commissioner accepts was wrong.
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Kowhai, I'm not going to argue that rugby is a specifically appropriate or designated context for a haka. Just that it's less likely to offend people when all involved are effectively consenting parties, rather than it being done aggressively in the face of non-consenting people who're obliged to remain where they are and can't just walk away.
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Finn you seem to be painting Maori into a plastic tiki parody of itself, hollow of any meaning.
No, I'm arguing that Maori culture should be treated like any other modern relevant culture - i.e, behavior stemming from it should be up for public debate as to its impact on other people. Once it becomes an unquestionable, static museum piece I think you run more of a risk of making it into a plastic parody, lacking in meaning and contemporary relevance.
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As portrayed in the TV pictures, the hikoi participants looked like a rabble. If they were looking to win public support for their grievances, it backfired pretty badly.
And I don't think Tainui are going to be too impressed at the way Nanaia Mahuta was humiliated either.
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Well I am going to come back to this later Finn, I don't want to get all steamed up and type my thoughts in time to keep up with this rapidly growing thread. If you are still around and listening later maybe we could come back to it. Such a huge issue and I hate speaking for other people or writing as if I have privileged access to other people's intentions but I can see a whole other side to this that you don't seem to want to acknowledge in any shape or form.
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