Speaker: Remembering the Chartists
269 Responses
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Kong,
Hey kong, get stuffed mate. If citizens want to express a reasoned opinion on something that does not suddenly turn them into a politician to be bullied and denigrated by our elected representatives.
Nor does it grant them immunity, particularly when they are choosing to cross swords.
You seem to forget, MPs and PMs have been elected to represent *all* of us, not simply those agree with them.
You seem to forget that there are differing opinions about the purpose of representatives.
We deserve and should get respect from the PM down (and to be fair, we usually do get that).
We obviously have differing ideas of respect. You seem to prefer patronization (although you're pretty quick with the get-stuffed when it's you doing it).
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although you're pretty quick with the get-stuffed when it's you doing it
That was the point...Did you miss it?
Just because a politician shows respect to their fellow citizens and electors does plainly not mean that they have to agree with them.
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Kong,
That was the point...Did you miss it?
Not at all. It was loud and clear. It was probably partially heartfelt too, I'm glad you got it off your chest. Now lets all sit around and hold hands whilst completely disagreeing with each other, and discuss something neither of us knows shit about.
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Sounds like parliament..
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Hey kong, I think you need to understand a bit more about this and my position. Because it isn't unusual.
Yesterday I gave evidence to a select committee, along with lots of other people.
I expect some people there, even lots, disagreed with my points. However, in fronting up a giving my 2cs worth I do not expect to be vilified, denigrated or have my private life pawed over by the politicians to whom I was speaking.
To suggest otherwise as you and others seem to be doing is just not acceptable.
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It's rather like telling a crap karaoke performer not to give up their day job. It doesn't mean anything more sinister than "Your singing is crap".
Kong, what is it exactly that makes you presume Keisha Castle-Hughes doesn't know what she's talking about? How would you know unless you're willing to engage?
As for JK, I don't really mind if he gave KC-H the brush-off (as per someone else's comment that he's not obliged to have a tete-a-tete with any old person that requests one), but he was pretty rude. The thing that grates most is that this is just another (granted, rather innocuous) example of a trend that I'm increasingly unhappy about. They've been using this "urgency" thing to pass unpopular (or downright inexplicable) bills, some MPs have delivered personal attacks against people that have publically criticised policy decisions; JK stated they'd ignore the outcome of the (granted, ludicrous) referendum before it was even mailed out. They seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that when the country voted labour out, they willingly offered the national caucus carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want. Maybe all govts feel that sense of entitlement, but they could at least *try* be more discreet.
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Kong,
I can't see this discussion really going anywhere. We have differing ideas on the level of respect that should be afforded by the PM to anyone who has an opinion, regardless of training. The huge spectre of Greenpeace standing behind Keisha is reason enough to treat her as a hostile witness right from the get-go.
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They seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that when the country voted labour out, they willingly offered the national caucus carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want.
If people did not want an authoritarian daddy-knows-best style of government then they shouldn't have voted for Natonal, Act, etc - and keep saying they approve in opinion polls. Not much consolation for everyone else, but that's democracy.
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Kong,
Kong, what is it exactly that makes you presume Keisha Castle-Hughes doesn't know what she's talking about? How would you know unless you're willing to engage?
To be quite honest, there's no reason to engage even if she does know heaps about it. You'd probably just use a different brush off. But has anyone, herself included, ever intimated in the slightest that she is a climate change expert?
Time will tell whether Key is hurt by this. Keisha needs to play her cards tight. Greenpeace will surely be able to help, they're old political hands. It could backfire horribly - I doubt that the true costs of their aim to cut our emissions will look good right in the middle of the deepest recession in modern history. Not to the people who voted for the right anyway.
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The huge spectre of Greenpeace standing behind Keisha is reason enough to treat her as a hostile witness right from the get-go.
And National/Act's do-nothing position has the backing of wealthy business interests - which I guess makes Key a "hostile witness" too. No one in any conversation is free of context or motivation, especially in politics.
As Heather said, it's just part of an overall pattern of behaviour from the current Government, but I doubt Keisha or Greenpeace are too upset about things. Got some publicity after all.
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The huge spectre of Greenpeace standing behind Keisha is reason enough to treat her as a hostile witness right from the get-go.
Because god forbid the PM should engage with representatives of environmental organisations about climate change.
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Kong,
Sacha, indeed. Key's unforced error (as DPF puts it), is the NZ equivalent of catching some sealers bashing in little fluffy white baby seals on film. They love that shit. What they don't get is that humanity is chock-full of carnivores.
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Opinion polls seem to support your contention that our nation thinks baby seals are indeed delicious.
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Hang on, this isn't the food thread.
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I doubt that the true costs of their aim to cut our emissions will look good right in the middle of the deepest recession in modern history
As if we have some kind of choice here not to do anything.
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Because god forbid the PM should engage with representatives of environmental organisations about climate change.
I'd hazard a guess that Keisha can run circles around Nick Smith's climate change information ( which has been questionable) also. Y'know the guy that confused The Green Party with Greenpeace and had to have that explained in the House.Y'know the guy that informs the PM.
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Kong,
Opinion polls seem to support your contention that our nation thinks baby seals are indeed delicious.
Actually I was speaking metaphorically. My real contention was that there are a lot of people in this nation who love to see greenies getting a serve. And celebrities, for that matter. Key's 'advice' could seem prophetic in the shortest time, if Keisha's handlers don't prep her well enough.
OTOH, actors can make good politicians. By good I mean successful. They're already well honed in half of the skills. I haven't seen anything to suggest Keisha can't go a long way. Front people don't actually have to know much about issues, and when you become a one-issue pony there's not that much to learn.
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Actually I was speaking metaphorically.
I think everyone got that - or we'd both be awaiting crucifixion.
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I doubt that the true costs of their aim to cut our emissions will look good right in the middle of the deepest recession in modern history. Not to the people who voted for the right anyway.
If NZ was to collide head on with the American Clean Energy & Security Act, would they be jolted into pulling their carbon weight, or would they just go on a Yank-bashing spree - not unlike the "punch-a-Pom-a-day" movement of the 1970s?
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