Random Play: So You Wanna Be A Rock’n’Roll Star
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simon grigg under your propeller label why did u let "andrew snoid" produce the mee mee's "see me go" single?..
.maybe with a much better fuller sound production it would have had more mass appeal & global chart success..
andrew snoids under experience & hence under production of the single is a big failure..
same with the blams "no depression in nz" that could have had global success if the production had been better .. -
Gordon Bennett!...27 years later Andrew, that's not a question I expected. But in terms of 81 production's I think the Blams was about as good as it got in NZ. See Me Go, well I think we were all sick to death of it by the time it came out. It was recorded about five times and the best was the demo (on the Hauraki Homegrown album in 1980).
I agree the single was thin as hell but it was seat of the pants stuff then...we had no money, no studio experience to speak of, and we were just trying to get the records out.
Whether a slick production would've given either act global success is something, for a variety of reasons, that I doubt. It's not that simple, but a couple of things worth noting..the influential Trouser Press in LA named the Meemees album as one of 1982's top 10, and the initial recordings for the Blams album were produced by Roy Thomas Baker. They were horrendous and scrapped. I'm fairly happy with what did get released.
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"no depression in nz" that could have had global success if the production had been better ..
yeah, cos the rest of the world is gagging for songs about the socio political situation in the colonies.
what was it like firing mr "Bohemian Rhapsody?
this thread has already pretty well discussed most of the issues but one point that hasn't been made clear as to why local bands don't get better production recording and mastering is cos it costs a lot of money, and that lot of money has to come from the bands pocket mostly, cos there are very few labels willing to put cash behind band, if they had any.
Look at our history. Flying Nun sat on 2 key albums in the late 80's for 2 years cos they were out of cash and waiting for a deal with mushroom to come through and start the cash flowing.Simon, your own label was almost crippled by your attempt to play it the big boys way and sink real cash into real studio to produce really quite astounding results for the time and place. too bad you were never going to see that money back any time soon.
our funding body set up to address issues of "local sounds rubbish" got them selves all hooked up on creating a new sound of new zealand, one created in the image and likeness of commercial radio, and so we still have pretty much the same situation that we had before. Musicians and their friends funding recordings that very few people are going to buy because they'll never know it exists.
The lack of cash in the local scene trickles down too. I think there are some good ears in the local industry, but they can only tweak what they can hear and I don't think there is one professionally set up control room in the sth island. That costs a lot of money to do and is essential for a serious sound. How can you make a dance floor hit if you can't hear the bottom end of your mix cos you don't have either speakers that deliver those frequencies or a room that is built and tuned to deliver an accurate flat response, that room is the hard part, it costs very serious money to build and treat something like that, not to mention skill.
A quick flight to sydney and studio 301 or its near equivalent could be worth it for you, if you can afford the money for plane and studio -$2000 plus should cover it.
That said there are some really good recordings done here by unskilled people. its luck really.
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one other point that people failed to notice or mention is that we have a really dense buying public in NZ (present company excluded of course)
They tend to not notice anything until someone overseas notices it.exhibit one, crowded house. a flop in the local market until america said number 2, then we loved them.
the whole bailterspace at cbgb's is as much about tricking the nz public into thinking other people are paying attention as anything else.
I think I was at that gig, might have even been mixing em, can't remember, I did one of their shows in 88, maybe 2. I remember it was either them or the bats on the same bill as henry rollins band.
not many people there but if no one tells the nz public and they weren't there, then maybe they'll notice their own music cos they think someone else likes it. is not telling the same as lying? -
There was a guy (who is a music critic) in the apartment above mine in Pittsburgh last year who saw Bailterspace at CBGBs. He said it was the loudest gig he ever heard, and everyone went and stood out on the street to listen to it.
That might explain why you didn't see many people there.
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not many people there but if no one tells the nz public and they weren't there, then maybe they'll notice their own music cos they think someone else likes it. is not telling the same as lying?
It's called being economical with the truth.
But what the hey. Robbery has a point, is the overseas experience of our musicians is lived out vicariously by their fans? does overseas "success" sell records at home?
I think the answer to those questions is a resounding yes. -
That might explain why you didn't see many people there.
ok, that one might not have been the one I did. I was still figuring out how to do loud without feed back at that stage of my career. I did the maxwell's one though.
I remember henry rollins band being very very loud.
have these people not heard of ear plugs. why would you go see a rock band especially one widely known to be into volume, without ear plugs.
that said, there is loud and there's painful, neither are safe to be exposed to for a full set. plug em if you've got em. -
and for those that critisie local sound, we have some pretty good sound engineers here, problem is most bands don't make enough money on a gig to pay someone that will do their sound justice. I don't charge much more than your average pizza delivery guy gets paid for a nights work and thats still too much for some. there's always some student home expert willing to do it for less. very few bands rate quality over losing money, and who can blame them.
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ok, so cash was a problem , but then again how come Dragon had their act together in the 70's in terms of production ?They werent exactly rolling in dough...they were living in a rough den in ponsonby ...they used local guy "peter dawkin"s & all those recordings have stood the test of time, radio still play them because not only are they good songs but they have a good sound production ..
your stuff came out in the 80s when technology & sound production skills available would have been better & more advanced than the 70s..
its true "see me go" has'nt got that true song test longevity appeal but given its new wave 80s slot and a much better produced sound , it may have stood on its own against the new wave chart riders at the time like "flock of seagulls" , "human league" "devo" etc..
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it may have stood on its own against the new wave chart riders at the time like "flock of seagulls"
Lordy....FOS were as close to satanic as it got in 1981 as I recall...
Dragon were recorded for CBS in Australia by the legendary Peter Dawkins.
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hey simon, can we have some more background on the blams / queen producer gig?
did he come out here, how much did he charge and how far did he get before you scrapped it?
how do you tell a guy like that you don't like his work?
how'd the connection come about, did someone know someone?
why the queen producer for the blams? did you guys want that sort of sound?(writers note, no sarcasm was included in this post, strictly interested in the event)
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He was bought out by Harlequin Studios as part of a training scheme. They used two bands as quinea pigs, I can't remember who the other was.
He recorded a bunch of tracks and we were allowed to use them but with no name attached, but they were horrendous..he made the Blams sound like Foreigner. We simply scrapped them and started again. As I recall parts of the Time Enough track on Luxury Length retain a bit of his work.
I don't think we ever told him.
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wow, that's a pretty amazing opportunity for someone though.
probably turn the reverb down on the huge gated snare sound and it wouldn't have sounded half bad.
did anyone keep a copy. I'd like to hear his 'vision' of the blams.
wonder who the other band was.
dare I bring up the name we dare not speak (auckland walk).? (shiver)I guess thats the problem with some producers. rather than take a bands sound and work to bing out the best in it, they re make the band in their own image. Not a mismatch made in heaven then, but it could have been a great thing. the guy did seminal cars and devo albums but tends to lean on the side of brash rock,
I wonder why he interpreted the blams so off from their personal view of themselves?were the boys a little bit shy in coming forward with what they wanted?
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I think was The Narcs or someone MOR like that. The 24 track masters of the Blams might have something on them, and Don McGlashan has those as i gave them to him about 3 years back. But being Ampex tapes from that era no-one seems keen to risk playing them.
At the time we thought that The Cars and Devo were a little too mainstream rawk for our tastes which leaned more to UK indie / US No-wave.
Along those lines Julian Cope visited a Blams session too as i recall, and Tim Mahon chucked him out for being a tosser.
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But being Ampex tapes from that era no-one seems keen to risk playing them.
bake at 50 degrees C for about 8 hours. gets you a few plays.
interesting that people like Cope were hanging around.
wonder why he thought a studio would be a good place to hang out on his nz holiday? too bad it wasn't someone from magazine, that could have been helpful, but all in all not a bad record. -
Yeah, but we baked a tape (unreleased Meemees song from the Stars In My Eyes sessions) and it just flaked to pieces anyway...lost forever.
There was a whole stream of quite interesting bands through AK at the time. Banshees, Cure (playing to about 100 at Mainstreet the first time), Ramones, Clash, XTC, Magazine, Bunnymen, Members, Birthday Party and many more, and lots ended up hanging out with the local bands both in and out of the studio.
As I recall the Blams invited Cope into the studio.
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I am pretty sure that The Members never played in New Zealand. (they were one of my favourite bands, and I'm sure I would've noticed). I also don't recall XTC ever touring here (I think their only international tour was cancelled after the first US gig).
Cheers,
Brent. -
Wrong on both counts I'm afraid Brent. The Members played Mainstreet late in 1979, supported as i recall by Toy Love. They also toured Australia supported by Th'Dudes. I even interviewed them. It was the first visit by a post-punk band and was a big deal. They returned here a year or so later as I recall too.
XTC played at The Logan Campbell Centre. I was also at that one.
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