OnPoint: Bandwagon Hobos
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Stepen,
I have nothing but respect fot Organic farmers, they are up against it with the big fertiliser companies. Did you hear about this?
The Probitas StoryBackground
Commission investigation. In 2003 Mr Campbell approached a dairy farmer, Andrew Sime, wanting to buy lime and papa rock clay from Mr Sime’s lime works to use for making Probitas. Mr Sime also worked as soil tester, and when he saw the Probitas brochure, he was suspicious of the claims made. He gave the brochure to his son Dr Richard Sime, who has a PhD in physical chemistry. Dr Sime thought the claims sounded bogus and contacted the Commission. The Commission opened an investigation in July 2003.
In August 2003 a Commission investigator posed as a kiwifruit orchardist interested in buying Probitas, obtaining a sample of the product which was independently tested. When Mr Campbell was then approached by the Commission in relation to its investigation, he refused to be interviewed. A search warrant later executed and documents seized. Mr Campbell and his company were ultimately charged over the claims made to the Commission’s investigator in person, and in a promotional CD and brochure.
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Garlic was a good one to bring up (Sue Kedgley and imported stuff.) For a while I could *not* source NZ garlic in local shops (and the Chinese import was substandard - went off really quickly, and had all the oomph of garlic powder.) So I tried online - and yes! Available, and really good quality, and I'm happy to pay extra & p&p to get excellent ANZ garlic. As are family (one member discovered fine organic garlic at a farmers' market, which isnt an option where I live)
and friends, who shared a gift from NZ Garlic Growers - we're about to order 10kg.Cheap stuff is one thing but importing it has downstream effects where there is a local equivalent - we all know this. In this instance, the local equivalent is the superior product; people have voted with their purchasing power - especially (in my case) with the aid of the 'net. Which is another factor to consider maybe...
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Up against it, certainly.
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Steve Barnes said
the next time you take a long trip in an aeroplane, have a look out of the window and see just how insignificant the human impact is on a global scale.
He's not looking very hard. Last time I flew, I saw a coal power station emitting huge amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. I saw large areas that had been cleared in the last century, and forests that were being cleared below me.
I would also like to remind Steve that the 2006 article he cites says
"There is no reason to believe that methane levels will remain stable in the future,"
It now appears the pause is over, and levels are increasing again (NOAA ESRL).
The article also notes that
"There is no reason to believe that methane levels will remain stable in the future," Simpson says. "For example, in the future methane levels could increase as a result of increased natural gas and energy use, climate change feedbacks and/or a decrease in the global abundance of the hydroxyl radical, which chemically removes methane from the atmosphere." Potentially catastrophic amounts of methane lie trapped as so-called burning ices, or methane hydrates, in the permafrost beneath arctic tundra--as much as 10,000,000 teragrams still trapped compared with just 5,000 teragrams in the atmosphere today, according to Simpson.
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"...Would that include abolishing quotas and encouraging industrial driftnets? You know, increase supply and force the price down. :)..."
*Thread hijack*
This is just a plain dumb thing to say. Despite the self-serving assertions by the industrial-fishing complex there is little evidence that the QMS/TAC system introduced in the 1980's is sustainable managing fishing quota in New Zealand. It may be ours is amongst the least unsustainably managed, but no one would seriously argue we have successfully managed, for example, the Orange Roughie stock. The point of the QMS was to establish property rights in (yet another) ideological new right brain explosion typical of the era. Moreover, the actual implementation of the system constructively conspired to force smaller local owner operators out of business and concentrate the quota into the hands of fewer and fewer operators. This was because the whole system was implemented on a user-pays/cost recovery basis by MAF who off the record made it clear that the red tape required to manage the new QMS meant they preferred to deal with a few big players and not a plethora of minor owner operators. The fees and regulations were racked up and up and up and the temptation of selling quota was all but irresistible to smallholder coastal fishers who faced frequent cash flow problems. This all suited successive the successive governments of the time with their inclination to crony capitalism, especially if that crony capitalism could be aligned to using quota to settle Waitangi claims cheaply.
To large industrial fishing operations with significant dollar amounts invested in deep sea and coastal fishing fleets the key to profitability is getting their vessels to sea as frequently as possible and catching as much as they can in as short a time as possible. The reality of industrial fishing is its economics practically demand they over-fish and cause stock collapse, moving from one species to another in a permanent boom/bust cycle. Because estimating fish stocks is extremely difficult (I once heard it compared to flying in a helicopter over a cloud covered New Zealand, lowering a net through the cloud and trying to estimate the number of people, sheep etc from what came up again) fishing companies use a version of climate change denial tactics to "argue the science" always seeking to buy another season or three to Hoover up the ocean.
Returning the birthright of cheap seafood to the plates of New Zealanders - and given we have I think the third or fourth largest EEZ in the world I would argue its an absolute scandal that seafood is the price it is - would be easy, would benefit everyone and lead to a much more sustainable fishery. Within a 20 mile limit simply create large areas of marine reserves where no fishing (recreational included) is allowed, and combine that with restrictions on how you can fish (i.e. - speed, displacement, technology and method restrictions) together with licensing the operators who in return for accepting these restrictions would be free to sell direct to the public from their vessels and have guarantees that imported fish products were from sustainable sources. This would stimulate regional small holder fishing for the benefit of all New Zealanders. Outside that limit, the vessel and restrictions would impose a brake on the use of industrial to harvest wild stocks. The cost of catching the fish in the greater EEZ might possibly go up, but given the general shortage of seafood internationally I don't see the demand side diminishing on price.
All the bleating about the impracticality of the Green’s demand that Fonterra reduce prices is really more an illustration of how to many people have allowed themselves to have their thinking has been straight jacketed by a new right, TINA paradigm that holds all of New Zealand’s primary productive sectors exist only to serve the vested interests that now control them. Surely, the solution to high dairy prices (and surely, any sane and reasonable person in our land of milk and honey would hold that cheap and high quality milk products should also be seen as a birthright for all Kiwi’s) is to allow small holders to be licensed to produce for purely for the local market, effectively create a two-step dairy industry and leave Fonterra and its open air milk factory farming solely to concentrate on the export market.
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the next time you take a long trip in an aeroplane, have a look out of the window and see just how insignificant the human impact is on a global scale.
it depends where you're looking. south east asia isn't pretty. i flew between hanoi and hong kong the other day - it's a brown hazy mess. i'm glad we live in NZ, where our pollution gets blown out to sea on a regular basis
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Sure - I'm not wedded to dairy at all. But I'm just saying, growing cash crops where we have a competitive advantage, and using that to trade for other kinds of food is much more reasonable than trying to grow everything (bananas, for example) ourselves.
i've always thought that people understand the model, i.e. we trade high so we can buy flash stuff, but there's this (semi-)understandable cultural whinge that does "but that trading high shouldn't apply to hard-working kiwis whose butter is a birthright".
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oh. then i read the last bit of tom's comment.
so, what he said too.
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Kyle - that's is: commercial QMS; now outlawed small commercial <$10000 not allowed quota; subsistence has no legal status; & recreational (including tour boats = commercial in my book).
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and just found this re:
the next time you take a long trip in an aeroplane, have a look out of the window and see just how insignificant the human impact is on a global scale.
png's forests all but gone in 13 years
then there's the continents of plastic rubbish in the pacific and atlantic.
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Just a thought - which after a quick scroll through the comments appears to have gone unsaid - on dairy.
Go without.
It's expensive, unhealthy, unnecessary to survival and requires the mass exploitation and slaughter of sentient beings.
Or hey, just keep on milking it for all it's worth :)
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3410,
Well said, Tom.
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It's expensive, unhealthy, unnecessary to survival and requires the mass exploitation and slaughter of sentient beings.
Not unreasonable but lots of kids get most of the calcium from dairy - my youngest is allergic so she's getting hers from soy products but they're not cheap either - 500 mls of most non-GMO soy milk is around the AUD $3.00 mark. So while I don't object to your point, it's not entirely simple... I suspect those kids who love cheese-toasty (and who doesn't) will baulk at calcium supplements!
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Discussing cheese aye? Doesn't get much more exciting than this.
I buy a 1kg block of budget cheese from pac n save for 10 dollars. I use it mainly for crackers on the odd evening and we had macaroni and cheese for dinner last night.
It last about 4 shops which is around a month. That's $2.50 a week on cheese. Given the "60 cent" increase that works out at 15 cents more a week.
We'll live. I'm a bit more concerned about oil companies controlling prices which have seen a rise from about 50 dollars to fill up each week to 85 dollars to fill up each week.
35 dollars versus 15 cents.
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So while I don't object to your point, it's not entirely simple...
It seems pretty simple to me Paul. Cows obtain the calcium that is in their milk from the same source as we should - leafy greens.
And kids get their lifelong food habits from their parents - start them young on a fresh, healthy and ethical diet and they'll thank you one day.
We need a food revolution! Oh yeah, that's why we're here ;)
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start them young on a fresh, healthy and ethical diet and they'll thank you one day
Possibly after whinging about hippy parents through childhood, teenagerness and beyond. I had non-hippy but sensible-middle-class-sweet-restricting folks and it took me until my 30s to stop buying a few dollars worth of sweeties with every fillup of petrol or grocery shop.
Also see Modern Parents
Still, I agree with the idea that dairy fat is not an essential staple of life. I have milk in my coffee and I've pretty much given up cereal (I find that if I don't buy cereal my milk consumption drops to the point where a litre barely stays fresh long enough to consume).
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It seems pretty simple to me Paul. Cows obtain the calcium that is in their milk from the same source as we should - leafy greens.
Its not too hard for me either but I do eat a bit of fish(trying always to eat farmed, but not completely successful), to get some protein and at the mo I only have a need for cheese (my body is telling me) but thats probably cos chemo is a bit of a diet killer,To eliminate meat from the diet doesn't hurt.To cut down is even less painful.
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Cheese is my diamonds!Yep.:-)
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Just when you thought bathing in milk was a good idea;
Breaking NewsMILK - A RECIPE FOR CANCER
And I don’t care what anybody says, growth hormones, fat, cholesterol, allergenic proteins, blood, pus, antibiotics, bacteria, and viruses do not “do a body good!” Then why does such a large portion of America continue to buy dairy products when they go shopping? Corporate brainwashing and propaganda, that’s why! Obviously words like “pus” would turn most educated consumers off, so the mega dairy industry continues to spend billions of dollars each and every year to glamorize the drinking of milk and convince us that it’s the only worthwhile source of calcium, and that without it, our bones are going to become brittle and crumble like the great walls of Jericho.
Obviously a serious intellectual analysis, you can tell by the large number of colours and types of font used for this informative site.
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Interweb, what a well of truth you are. -
Sorry, Forgot the Link
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And kids get their lifelong food habits from their parents - start them young on a fresh, healthy and ethical diet and they'll thank you one day
Michael, for ethical, dietary and health reasons, I both agree and mostly follow this basic approach. This doesn't mean a vegetarian diet, IMO, but it does mean seasonal, fresh and local produce wherever possible. My point was that for kids, calcium (and surely other nutrients etc) are essential and it's not always easy to substitute - not just 'cause of cost but also 'cause of kids preferences; 7pm on a weeknight is not when I want to undertake a significant palette re-education project.
I also suspect the cost of dairy might be overstated in its importance.
Hey Sofie, for what it's worth, my best wishes for the chemo (I've got a friend going through chemo at present and I know from them how tough it is).
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Hey Sofie, for what it's worth,
Its worth, thanks. Seems to work so,its all good.
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It seems pretty simple to me Paul. Cows obtain the calcium that is in their milk from the same source as we should - leafy greens.
Not being a cow, and only having one stomach, and also not having the ability to produce milk, I suspect my body wouldn't work so well in this regard.
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Cereals are an odd diet, nuts & grains in a cold milk soup. Mr Kellog had a few odd ideas - some great ones too - but some very odd & distasteful ones. If you are what you eat he was equal parts nuts & a (corn)flake :-)
I want to see the maketers get us to take yogurt this way.
"Every water enema was followed by a pint of yogurt — half was eaten, the other half was administered by enema “
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_KelloggStay strong Sofie, a friend has just gone through that and is onto radio (?) treatment now.
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Not being a cow, and only having one stomach, and also not having the ability to produce milk, I suspect my body wouldn't work so well in this regard.
Do you think the providers of the container load of spinach I just bought might call you tomorrow; I might need some support canceling the deal...?
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