Island Life: Child's play
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Oh, and on that citizenship thing. If someone feels they are a kiwi, no matter where they live, who they work for or how long they have been away, or how long they have lived here, we should welcome and embrace that feeling and fellowship. It's not like we dominate the world or anything.
ETNZ is a New Zealand team because they feel it is an New Zealand team. That's good enough for me.
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well said, Don - lots of Kiwis live outside the country for various reasons. My brother, for example, lived in the UK for 20 years. He went there for one reason, and ended up eventually marrying a Pom, and having my delightful nieces, and stayed much longer than he had anticipated he would, because his wife wasn't ready to leave the bright lights of Twickenham. They ended up moving back to Auckland 2 1/2 years ago. Should Latimer's passport have been taken off him? I don't think so. My other brother, a musician, has lived out of the country for years at a time. Should he be penalised for choosing to be where he can make a living doing what he loves? I don't think so. But I do wish he would come home...........
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This is a terrible thread.
Lets get back to facts.
Everyones putting forward sarcastic dribble.
Coutts & Butterworth were deceitful and did it for the money. The chip on there shoulders appears has formed from the lack of respect they now have in their homeland. Profit free clubs and this country gave them their opportunites no one else.
Go Team NZ and thrash the traitors.
Now I don't want some clown comparing what they did with someone plying their trade overseas playing rugby etc.
They were important and trusted member of a team which alot of people had invested time and energy in. Shame on them.
Loyal Black Heart Memeber
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So, Max, you want the Kiwi sailors who sail under the name of a foreign airline to beat all the other Kiwi sailors who are working for their foreign employers? And it makes you feel all patriotic?
It's time our education system started encouraging critical thinking.
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Hello John
You hit the nail on the head.
I do want the Kiwi sailors who sail on the Emirites to beat Butterworth & the remaining 3 traitors.
I want them to bring the Cup to Auckland with all its benefits and I will feel very patriotic.
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I've just moderated a comment. It's good to have a debate, but let's leave out the invective.
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John Farrell: "It's time our education system started encouraging critical thinking."
i thought that this was a pretty invective comment itself and replyed with like seeing it was directed at myself. However, I shouldn't have lowered myself to that level, apologies.
i kind of get sick of some of the comment on here that is elitist clap-trap. What i am referring to here is some of the people who seem to jump on the band wagon repeating, ad nauseum, how the Emirates boat is foreign - and (paraphrasing here) how anyone who dare support them is ignorant. I guess it is 'cool' to have an alternative viewpoint from the masses and to be passionate about anything you must obviously be uneducated? And anyway who says that because you consider yourself 'educated' that your viewpoint is more valid?
I am looking forward to Team NZ Emirates winning the Americas Cup (notice the name of the cup? wonder why that is?(yes I do know)) and bringing all the economic benefits that entails. How patriotic of me!! -
heard an interesting talk by a prof paul spoonley the other day.
he spoke of rangitoto college in auckland, 43% ethnically asian.
the two biggest sports at the school are soccer and badminton, neither of which gets sparc funding (afaik). he tried to explain this to some sparc people, but was apparently told to "go away" (my interpretation of spoonley's description).
apparently kiwis play rugby, and all these new zealanders at rangitoto just better get used to picking up the ball.
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apologies.
Thanks Max.
Talked to a guy this afternoon who was involved in the unsuccessful defence. He believes (and hopes) that if Dalton wins it and institutes a nationality rule, you would see countries like China and India playing a larger role in future contests, while the so-called Formula 1 teams might lose interest.
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merc,
No SPARC funding = beer sonsorship. Drunk surfers = ACC funding.
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Don
You answered B twice and didn't address A at all. A was about having free time. The time taken for these activities is a further class divide. 2hrs max for Rugby/league less for touch (so is played after work). Whereas Yachting is a full day, so no other requirements on your time, no other job to go to. This is a noted class difference in sport.Rum sodomy & the lash is my favourite Winston Churchill quote - please don't take it personally - also a favourite childhood album.
Kyle
One of the missing cornerstones to Free Trade is free movement of people - to work in a free trade economy - as such our systems of pports is prejudicial on at least nationalist bounds, if not a little more.Jackie
20years in one country and still not feel like you belong there? It's like CIA - Cantabrians in Auckland.
After20yrs overeseas I don't believe anyone should hold another countries pport. But should be able to apply for residence in a more open environment than we currently have. Even Russell Crow (for all his faults) has the personal integrity to get an Ozzy Pass Port.To think of saliors/sportsmen as traitors - now that's extreme.
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David Slack "if Dalton wins it and institutes a nationality rule, you would see countries like China and India playing a larger role in future contests, while the so-called Formula 1 teams might lose interest"
i believe that would be in the best interests of the Americas Cup (not just NZ). This would make the competition more relevant to a more diverse range of people. People may argue that it is a rich mans sport - is that the AC fault? Many sports can have the same criticism levelled at them. I myself appreciate the skill involved in a race.
While i am passionate about the AC and Team NZ Emirates returning it to Auckland i would never yell abuse at the ex Team NZ members. I think the story was blown out of proportion (exactly as Bertarelli planned). I honestly think it was more likely that a few drunk idiots yelled some silly comments out but the majority of kiwi fans would be good sports. However, as usual, a few wreck it for the majority.
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Che Tibby "the two biggest sports at the school are soccer and badminton, neither of which gets sparc funding"
Merc "No SPARC funding = beer sonsorship. Drunk surfers = ACC funding."how do schools feel about getting pub charity sponsership? Just wondering as they seem to have plenty of money to distribute but i guess there is an ethical issue here? Even though the money from the pub charity is drawn from the same population that the school population is drawn from? (the students parents, grandparents etc...)??
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I'm astonished people are still talking about it. It's obvious that Bertarelli wants to have a story every few days that the Kiwi team has to respond to and think about ("oh shit, are we yobbos?", "what do we say about having it in Auckland?", "can I call Chris Dickson a tosser yet?"). It's just to tip the Kiwis from even keel, so to speak.
Expect a few more. I fully imagine boat design will be mentioned (Alinghi revealing a new design, or questioning the legality of something on the Kiwi boats). Just remember that complaints or discussions about anything the Kiwis can't control is just a mind game.
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heard an interesting talk by a prof paul spoonley the other day.
he spoke of rangitoto college in auckland, 43% ethnically asian.
the two biggest sports at the school are soccer and badminton, neither of which gets sparc funding (afaik).i) I’m not sure this popularity statistic would bear up to that much scrutiny. How did he define biggest ? Who are the ethnically Asian ?
ii) To tie this statistic up to an immigrant issue, is a big leap of logic that also fails to stand up to scrutiny. Asian also = cricket, table tennis, basketball, sepak takraw, golf etc. Football (so renamed this year) is the refuge of just about any kid that isn’t big enough to be into rugby, or of European extraction which makes up a lot of Rangi’s remaining 57%.
iii) Both sports to date still receive funding from SPARC. What I believe will change is that they will lose (high?) performance funding from 2008 if their performers don't achieve according to some quite stringent criteria or don't compete in areas of national importance. They will be made to bid for additional performance funds to be reviewed on a case by case basis.He tried to explain this to some sparc people, but was apparently told to "go away" (my interpretation of spoonley's description).
Based on the above I would hope that he made a better attempt at presenting the issue. Probably speaking to the wrong people – notwithstanding the fact that this particular issue is very political at the moment.
apparently kiwis play rugby, and all these new zealanders at rangitoto just better get used to picking up the ball.
Note: Nick Hill is an ex rugby player what do you expect. IMHO he has done a good job of managing sport but a very poor job of promoting it as a health/recreation vehicle. He knows f**k all about elite performance a la his spectacular outburst after the CWG (he and Mallard need the long run and the cold shower for that one). It may well be time for a change of boss at SPARC (no I don’t want the job) but this approach is unlikely to be particularly helpful.
National sport funding is an awful business and I agree that SPARC have got it badly wrong with the current strategy. The strategy document stinks. The national importance approach is going to be used as a way to bail out a failing franchise based system that is killing respective sports at the grass roots. But linking ethnic demographics to participation and then using this as a stick to beat SPARC with makes me uncomfortable.
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as i remember it, rangitoto is a microcosm of "auckland of the future". "asian" population in the city is anticipated to level out at about 40%.
and i'm not going near the sparc strategy stuff... public servant here...
spoonley did indicate that the doyens of sports he was talking to were all pretty much pakeha, wealthy, male. the inference being that these doyens were pretty convinced that the "auckland of the future" was a myth because of assimilation.
spoonley's further suggestion was that it was assimilation that is the myth.
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we are nation of sad f#cks who pin our hopes/self-esteem on our international sporting prowess.
Post-melodramatic stress-disorder?_
Nah, gospel truth mate; gospel truth.Hey Max, who are the other traitors you're upset with? It always occurred to me that Chris Dixon should get some sort of medal for services to sailing. He's successfully kept Larry Ellison's attention and money cornered for two challenges now, without any actual success.
Surely that's what we expect of kiwi sailors who don't get a spot on our boat? Sail on someone else's boat and lose. Aha! So that's why you're so pissed off with Coutts and Butterworth!
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Che-
i) Sorry about the public servant baiting...
ii) Yes I have said as much to staff at SPARC and it will cost me research funds for the rest of my career.But ! The point I so brilliantly hid in a rant was Spoonley and SPARC have both got it wrong.
spoonley's further suggestion was that it was assimilation that is the myth.
Football is like the freakin' Borg it will assimilate race, culture, gender, shoe size..... Ethnic bias in sport diversity is irrelevant set against the so called "beautiful game".
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yeah nah i agree completely! the game itself lives on regardless of race or creed.
i've been thinking that was is so interesting about the spoonley senario is that the "doyens of new zealand sports" are replicated across a range of other social and cultural settings.
new zealand is littered with these old geezers who refuse to accept that the character of the new zealand nation is under incremental change away from the old colonial identity.
on one hand we've got migrants introducing "foreign" ways and colonising auckland, and on the other we've got maori demanding a movement in identity towards a reality that includes them.
the complicating factor is, imho, the trade-off that usually occurs when a nation accepts "non-traditional" migrants (in our case "asians" or "africans"). normally the presence of these migrants is politically feasible because they're expected to assimilate intergenerationally. this means that "joe redneck" from temuka is pacified by the guarantee that all the migrants will become "kiwis" in time.
but demands from migrants, and demands from indigenes, are seeing this trade-off becoming less and less relevant.
it's a precipitating social conflict, and the migrants will be the one's who lose out (closely followed by the host nation, when it begins to shrink and face economic collapse...)
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merc,
Max said: how do schools feel about getting pub charity sponsership? Just wondering as they seem to have plenty of money to distribute but i guess there is an ethical issue here? Even though the money from the pub charity is drawn from the same population that the school population is drawn from? (the students parents, grandparents etc...)??
I don't know about that. But I note that SPARC and Smokefree are involved in Scolastics surfing competitions and the link from the NZSA to SPARC is thus, so as ever it pays to do a little research form what is available before I mouth off about what was existent many years ago when I judged an event.
The so called surf culture has changed alot over the 30 years I have been surfing.
So for some, yes surfing is a sport, some a dance, some art, some a career, some a life. Currently it is being put forward as an Olympic Sport. Kelly Slater at 8 times world champ is arguably on top of his friend Tiger (7 times?).
Plus for old farts like myself there are numerous Masters comps and I note that the beer drinking has tappered off alot, hell you were supposed to retire at round 23, nowadays I see people out surfing in their 60's, not to mention the upsurge in female surfers (they have their own circuit).
As ever it's a complex story, I have some ideas from my own direct experience (NZ amateur vs International professional), but they would be too difficult to articulate here. -
I've been led to understand the one thing you don't wanna do is turn up with a bodyboard.....
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merc,
That is why it is so complex. Surfing has evolved form a purely male stand up machissmo to fully accepting females in the lineup (Gidget doesn't count) and now boogers too (erm , judderbars, eski lids, cripples...). Short boarders, longboarders, retro's, soul surfers, ferals, old, young, standup paddle boards, knee boarders, body surfers, tow ins, blow ins...the list is endless.
There will always be idiots, but in the main surfing has evolved and survived some of it's dubious past. NZ surfing is however about 10 years in the past but struggling hard to legitimize itself and there is a political arm (Whangmata Marina, Surfbreak Protection Society), a green arm and even a rich professionals (dentists, doctors, share brokers) arm. I remember well the affect that Jerry Lopez had on Uluwatu in 1976, then Ozzie Feral Surfers...).
We are the sport (thing, activity, divine meditation) most affected by the F&S Act ( I have been run off the land near two breaks), but hey, we just keep going out for the pure stoke (most have this in common).
See this movie to get the best description of where it's at, where it's been and meditations on where it's going, Step Into Liquid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Step_Into_Liquid
Only a surfer knows the feeling, meh. -
(Hadyn walks up to the mic and coughs nervously, well aware that he is still at the "one coffee" stage of the morning, he starts slowly...)
Well, soccer...
(Hadyn scuttles away and has another coffee. With renewed vigour he returns to to e-podium)
...excuse me, "football" is not as diverse as it first seems. I wrote a post a while back about how I could really do without cricket, a great reply came back:
A lot of people play [football], but notice how they are mostly Catholic. Rugby Union & League are for the rich and poor Anglicans respectively. Only Cricket is played by such a range of different religions, from the Muslims in Pakistan (and welcome to international cricket, the all conquering Bangladesh), to the range of religions in India, the pious poms, and the ex-fascist South Africa.
…If not for cricket, we wouldn't have feet to march with. Worship cricket. For it is a merciful and forgiving god.
Football is played by more people and does get some sponsorship but the reason we tend to put funding into rugby is that, you may have noticed, we're pretty bloody good at it. Also the NZRU is too bloody minded to figure out how to fund the game so we have to rely somewhat on SPARC.
* You can throw money at what we're good at to stay good at it or
* You can throw money at what we're not good at and try and even the whole thing up.
And as this is sport,and not say health, let's just specialise and be bloody good at rugby (the amount of rugby funding is an issue to be strongly debated as is the contribution of the NZRU).I don't really want to mention the Aisian apsect of the conversation except to say ... "and?" As far as I'm aware schools do not get sports funding based on students likes and dislikes. Maybe at a national level but not school by school. And anyway WTF? They can't afford footballs and badminton racquets at R'toto?
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InternationalObserver said:
"Surely that's what we expect of kiwi sailors who don't get a spot on our boat? Sail on someone else's boat and lose. Aha! So that's why you're so pissed off with Coutts and Butterworth!"Not quite true... as Coutts and Butterworth did have a spot on our boat! In fact the spots they had were pretty important ones! as i have said previously it was they way they left and their attitudes regarding this that has disappointed me.
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Cricket -
Gentlemen vs. Players or if you will Masters vs. servants.
A game devised to occupy the idle rich and because they don't have many friends - pay other to play with them. Not to mentioned the gambling and from its very start was more spectacle than sport“They came to see me bat, not to see you umpire” Grace- the rules go out the door - Shane Warne anyone?Football -
The world’s game - codified at Eton (a hell of a lot better than Rugby) School. So its class origin is without peer (or maybe quite a few).
In the UK Spurs is associated with the East End Jewish community & need I mention Celtic vs. Ranger. So within the UK the game eclipses all social divides.
Played mostly by Catholics (in NZ)? I dear say the Marist & Celtic Rugby Clubs may have a little to say about that.
Watch a football world cup and you will truly understand the meaning of what is meant by the term.
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