Hard News: Time to move on
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
Soo, finally, U 4, No retrial. Time to move on ..... yes we have no terrorists.
Now we won't get to see the amazing costumes that Tame Iti's wardrobe team no doubt had lined up. Perhaps that's why the Crown caved in.
Peter Tapsell was once mercilessly lampooned for reportedly claiming that young Maori would improve their lot if they took the trouble to dress better. Iti's experience suggests that he was on to something.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
no doubt had lined up. Perhaps that’s why the Crown caved in.
Nah, They saw that dude that has been training to defend the whales. Can't remember his name but he spent a month in Japan a year or so ago. Think he's ex Greenpeace. The footage on 3 a week ago was rather telling as to what's acceptable. That stuff was pretty commando in my ,book, and no probs,so no brainer really.{ ;)
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Looking forward, not, to Tama Iti, in his own mind, becoming NZ's equivalent of Nelson Mandela.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Looking forward, not, to Tama Iti, in his own mind, becoming NZ’s equivalent of Nelson Mandela.
What, advocating peace and unity for the people of Aotearoa and righting some of the wrongs that has been delivered to iwi in the past and suggested present?
I'd welcome that. -
Islander, in reply to
What, advocating peace and unity for the people of Aotearoa and righting some of the wrongs that has been delivered to iwi in the past and suggested present?
I’d welcome that.Kai Tahu have found, over the past 14 or so years since our Treaty settlement with the Crown, that a lot of the hate & outright paranoia about what the tribe would do has dramatically diminished.*
We’ve been open to Pakeha & others coming to our huiatau. We’ve shared our artists’ creations. We have not used our economic clout to skew southern economies. “Mo tatou, me ka uri katoa ai” (as one of the early t-shirts had it – we’ve got a wee bit more grammatical since) is exactly what we are about – up to & including Whai Rawa which helped several of my whanau including me, and which indirectly returns a lot to local communities.( Whai Rawa is a savings scheme which is heavily subsidised by our tribe’s monies. If you’re young (and you can be enrolled *very* young) your savings can only be used for education or first home purchase. Once you become a superannuitant, the tribe no longer
assists your savings (but there are kaumatua grants…)Tama Iti had a different pathway in mind- I think- from Kai Tahu’s vision BUT he was as concerned to make sure the very real wrongs his tribe/s had endured
were compensated for-*There still little waves of backlash/redneckery. I had the pleasure, just last year, of jumping on a young white taxpaying male (he wasnt born here) who said, “Why should we pay anything to you Kai Tahu? We werent even born when the Pakeha arrived. And you’ve got all the good things Europeans brought.** You should be paying us!”
Me: “That land your parents bought for a dairy farm? That was arbitarily confiscated from my greatgrandparents back in the 1880s. It was part of their weka runs, and they thought it was included under the Treaty of Waitangi provisions. Local bodies claimed it for unpaid rates.”My late & much-loved uncle Bill always said, “The missionaries brought us 3 things – the pox, the booze, and the bible. And while we were looking up to heaven, they stole the land under our feet."*
***This was very a Kai Tahu perspective when he was growing up. Mind you, they also brought literacy, which Maori everywhere immediately saw the worth 0f-
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It's *Tame* Iti , not Tama
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merc,
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Islander, in reply to
A little child shall led them etc.
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Sacha, in reply to
not a wild man :)
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DexterX, in reply to
What, advocating peace and unity for the people of Aotearoa
I very much doubt "he" would become such an advocate.
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Islander, in reply to
That goes against known history.
People, who have been fighting Maori patriots in the past, have been known to urge for peace between the first & second settler groups.
And I'm not at all sure, Dexter X, that you can actually determine what is in Iti's mind- -
Islander, in reply to
People, who have been fighting Maori patriots in the past, have been known to urge for peace between the first & second settler groups.
That may be unclear-
Maori patriots ( and I am thinking of some my tipuna, who went to war against 2nd settlers, then intermarried with them….)that was the old North Island jeer- “We fought ’em, you f***** ’em.”
Yeah baby. Who won? -
You know what? I have had nothing but warmth from the many Maori I meet. I am not an expert on whether or not they have concerns with regards their ancestral land, but I do know, they have justified grievances and a desire to right the wrongs of the past and I do see that land given back, often, benefits all New Zealanders. I see people of all persuasions setting out, and achieving an ends to a means. I see in NZ that Iwi are working with law to try to achieve peace. I can see that Tuhoi still have a grievance and I wish them the best in achieving their peace. How they achieve that, is their Mountain to climb, and it's about time they can get to the top.
Dexter, with all due respect, picking on the little guy is not what any of this was about. I think you know that much. -
And I'm not at all sure, Dexter X, that you can actually determine what is in Iti's mind-
Iti’s public behaviour, comes across to me, that in his mind he largely only has room for himself - his currency is cheap and the culmination of his actions have to my mind made him worthless.
Dexter, with all due respect, picking on the little guy is not what any of this was about. I think you know that much.-
My feeling is that at the heart of “it” was spite from Iti that he marginalised himself from Tuhoe elders and other leaders seeking to negotiate a settlement with the crown.
I wonder whether any of the “course participants” have gained positions working as private security contractors in Iraq; had “Iti and Co” secured a grenade launcher would they have blown themselves up in learning to operate it – most likely.
The Legislation, the behaviour of “Iti and Co”, the Police Raids and ensuing court case are pieces of a puzzle that results when idiots collide.
Never underestimate the power of rampant stupidity - Iti has been fortunate, perhaps he will end up doing community service with Doug Montrose Graham and Bill Jefferies – they can shoulder each others burden and perhaps sell their story of unity to the News of the World.
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Islander, in reply to
My feeling is that at the heart of “it” was spite from Iti that he marginalised himself from Tuhoe elders and other leaders seeking to negotiate a settlement with the crown.
Really?
How quaint.
And your Maori/Tuhoe background is? -
Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
It's not about money, but often that seems all the western world cares about. And Tuhoe not Tuhoi, my bad there.
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DexterX, in reply to
Yes - Really - As a free citizen in a democracy I am well entitled to form an opinion on matters and people who come before the Courts – particularly one such as Iti who courts attention.
IIti "being marginalised" was offered up in the submission made/evidence given on Iti's behalf in the Court cases associated with the flag shooting - this included the appeal under which resulted in an effective dismissal of the prosecution case. This was widely reported at the time.
You seem to be saying that only Maori can hold a view or express an opinion.
What does it matter that my background is brown, black, white or yellow.Are you in asking for my background alluding to the possibility that the marginalisation of Iti as part of the case in seeking an appeal of the original judgment against him was pure bullshit and that he may have perjured himself and his lawyer(s) mau have mislead the court?
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DexterX, in reply to
Agreed - the process recognises more than that.
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Islander, in reply to
<q>You seem to be saying that only Maori can hold a view or express an opinion.
What does it matter that my background is brown, black, white or yellow.An INFORMED opinion communicates with me, as a Maori. Anybody else can express an opinion as a ANZ tax-paying citizen-
I have no know idea what your background is, but your comments are pretty bog-standard Pakeha resentment- -
DexterX, in reply to
but your comments are pretty bog-standard Pakeha resentment-
Oh, touché another box deluxe cliché.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
What does it matter that my background is brown, black, white or yellow.
No so much that it matters but it does make a difference from the day you were born. And if you were green would you be seeking attention or would you eventually come to terms with the difference? Would you mind if your Mother was ostracized when she took you to school. Would every school accept you? Would you live happily ever after?
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Sacha, in reply to
My feeling is that at the heart of “it” was spite from Iti that he marginalised himself from Tuhoe elders and other leaders seeking to negotiate a settlement with the crown.
I believe you were being asked (but not really in a constructive way) to give more reason for trusting your opinion on this. If you had linkages with Tuhoe or with iwi politcs in general, your statement might hold more authority for some people.
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