Hard News: The Politics of Absence
523 Responses
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James Butler, in reply to
GREENS = Only found one, cnr St Lukes and Sandringham. Read “Party Vote Green”, with no candidate name or photo or even the name of the electorate.
I wasn't able to help so I don't know where they are, but my understanding is that the branch put up a number last weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if there are no candidate/electorate specific ones - the Greens have less money to spend on billboards, so it might make sense to save by getting large print runs of a few generic designs rather than small runs of specific ones; but that's just conjecture on my part.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
That wasn’t my intent. For me it seems everything Labour says seems to express an idea that they should lead and not collaborate with other representatives in parliament. Curran just said it more crudely, but Goff and others have made the same point. Goff in particular when he refused to share the stage with “minor parties” … wake up dude you are a minor party!
To be fair the Greens have never achieved more than 7% of the vote -- Labour is currently polling four times that and it's considered a disaster -- and never translated pre-election polling into votes. After taking Coromandel in 1999, they let it go and have never looked like establishing an electorate base again. They've performed dismally in two by-elections this term and missed the deadline in a third (Labour won two and increased its vote in the third).
So I'm a little wary of the Greens as a fount of electoral wisdom.
But yes, even in a position where they're clearly now competing for votes, Labour should damn well be able to explain how it would work with its natural allies.
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Just to mess with heads, PA stays in Nielsen’s Top 10 of sites by % of $100,000+ households, Kiwiblog is gone.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Well, labour.org.nz has been defaulting to www.ownourfuture.co.nz for a while now, and that message dominates the home page there. I think they’ve put quite a lot into that pitch, to be honest.
And thankfully no mention of this load of tosh pants. Perhaps someone at Labour HQ could kill that judgementfail with fire.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
And thankfully no mention of this load of tosh pants. Perhaps someone at Labour HQ could kill that judgementfail with fire.
Good grief. It is possible to close down websites, isn't it?
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Good grief. It is possible to close down websites, isn’t it?
That one shouldn’t have been opened in the first place. To give credit where credit’s due, I’ve been told off the record that quite a few front-bottoms, haters and wreckers and gaggling gays were far from amused and said so. But really, that hot mess was the Ebola of viral marketing but an interesting case study in what happens when political parties try to get down with the kids.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
what happens when political parties try to get down with the kids.
In case you were wondering, "nothing pretty (with the possibility of costly litigation for your copywrong sins)" is a sound general principle.
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izogi, in reply to
What I desperately wanted to see from Labour was an open understanding that they will have to co-operate with other parties who represent other viewpoints in order to lead this country. That would be a policy of co-operation and compromise to get the most representative government and not yet another simple elected dictatorship.
I agree completely, and I think it's a generational gap that will probably cause bigger parties to split into more specifically inclined smaller parties as long as MMP stays around, similar to what's already started happening to Labour's traditional supporters over the past decade, who've discovered they have so many other options for expressing what they want with a realistic expectation that it could form part of a government. I'm still struggling to think of a good metaphor to describe it that's more positive than a five headed monster, or whatever it was that was thrown around to frighten people in the past.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
I’m still struggling to think of a good metaphor to describe it that’s more positive than a five headed monster, or whatever it was that was thrown around to frighten people in the past.
Pluralism, maybe?
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Sacha, in reply to
I'm sure there's a word for it..
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Biobbs, in reply to
I’m still struggling to think of a good metaphor to describe it that’s more positive than a five headed monster, or whatever it was that was thrown around to frighten people in the past.
Pluralism, maybe?
Representative democracy, even!
Seriously, I cannot understand why the hell Labour still keeps trying to behave like a FPP party. MMP has been good for Labour - good relations with coalition partners were one of the key factors keeping them in power in the 00s and Helen Clark knew it and exploited it.
And FPP was unkind to Labour. In both 78 and 81 they got more votes than National. Historical counterfactuals are never straightforward, but I often wonder how different NZ history might have been with Muldoon as a one-term PM, Labour in power in those turbulent years. No Springbok Tour? No 'Think Big' and its drain on the economy? Who knows.
Message to Labour: You've had 15 years to get used to working with MMP and coalition partners. You are never going to form a majority government again, so why are you determined to behave so suicidally this time?
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
belabouring choices...
You've had 15 years to get used to working with MMP and coalition partners. You are never going to form a majority government again, so why are you determined to behave so suicidally this time?
Maybe they don't know the difference between
co-operation and co-option
Interestingly among the definitions my Mac dictionary has for co-option is : adopt (an idea or policy) for one's own use : example - the green parties have had most of their ideas co-opted by bigger parties. -
A lot of people I know can't be bothered with the election. They feel the Kiwi public isn't listening and there is no point wasting the effort on those in the thrall of bread and circuses who don't want to know anyway.
As in the US, you can't easily shift the great weight of the Big Stupid....and it's VERY big and heavy right now.
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Steve Withers, in reply to
The Greens don't waste much time on local candidates. There is no reason to as under FPP locally they stand NO chance of actually winning a single seat in NZ. It's all about the party vote.
I live in Northcote, one of the safest National seats around. I probably won't even bother with the local vote. It's waste of time. The party vote is the only one that matters...and if we lose MMP and up with FPP down the road it's very likely I will never bother voting again. Period.
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DexterX, in reply to
The fact Mr Goff and his PR people can’t immediately see such opportunities – and I would have thought he could have, after 30 years in politics – surprises me and is why he will never be PM.
I have to agree - I consider Labour are still suffering from the PTS (Post Traumatic Stress) that comes from being dumped as a Government and this is why they can’t communicate as a credible opposition (alternative government) – they still blame the voters and haven't yet forgiven them - perhaps.
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and only now do I stumble across Danyl's thread on this.
some great comments -
DexterX, in reply to
The Neilson Household Income $100,000 plus results - I really shouldn't be posting being I sit well outside the fortunate 43%; add to that my “posts” are unlikely to reflect those of the prime target advertising market income demographic.
The reason for ACT not having many billboards out is the Actoidz charged with the task keep driving out to the sites and forgetting what they came to do, they then go off and get some takeaways to satisfy the cravings.
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the Prime Minister of New Zealand spent an hour hosting a radio show
Are Radio Live trying to become Radio National?
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JLM, in reply to
I wouldn't be surprised if there are no candidate/electorate specific ones - the Greens have less money to spend on billboards, so it might make sense to save by getting large print runs of a few generic designs rather than small runs of specific ones; but that's just conjecture on my part.
I think your conjecture is correct, and as someone else has pointed out, the Greens only ask for the party vote, anyway.
I'm slightly amused that some Greens of my acquaintance thought that bb slogan For a richer New Zealand was going to be hugely controversial, but it seems to have passed un-noticed. I guess most of us know without explanation what a rich life really means.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
The Greens don’t waste much time on local candidates. There is no reason to as under FPP locally they stand NO chance of actually winning a single seat in NZ. It’s all about the party vote.
I find the idea that seeking to be an electorate candidate is a “waste of time” dispiriting. Sure, not every electorate: but the Greens have won an electorate contest before, and might have had a shot since if they’d been more organised and tried. Having an electorate base is a good thing. So is the continuity of having an LEC and local people you know will turn up for you. There's a lot to be said for representing a community.
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Islander, in reply to
There’s a lot to be said for representing a community.
Yep. And there are actually a substantial number of ‘green’ people on the Coast to make standing a substantial candidate here A Good Idea.
Note the word – substantial.
I’m not saying that previous candidates havent had substance – they just havent had that background support…
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Islander, in reply to
Goodness!
$100.000 A YEAR?
I think I might've made that amount over the last decade....
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Sacha, in reply to
There's a lot to be said for representing a community
You could say the Greens represent a community of *interest* spread across localities. The numbers are usually too diluted to win FPP electorate races and campaigning effort is more effectively channelled into getting party votes. The equation might shift after this election if they poll high enough and mature that on-ground organising capability.
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I'm inclined to think parties should focus on the party vote and leave the electorates to independents and representatives of purely local coalitions/organisations. After all, electorate MPs are supposed to represent the people of a certain geographical area, are they not? While list MPs are supposed to represent their party and the nation-wide constituency that voted for it?
Also, although I can understand me not being allowed to cast a vote for an electorate MP, I think expats should be allowed a party vote even after three consecutive years abroad (or 1 year in the case of permanent residents), as we do still have an interest in the governance of our country.
And all of the above is predicated on NZ retaining MMP. Change the system (please don't, please just tweak it a little to iron out some of the unfortunate oddities) and I'll change my view.
Then again, I have of late wondered if we're seeing the beginning of the end of Labour as a mainstream force, and the beginning of the rise and mainstreaming of the Greens as future main centre-left party, so I'm probably just mad.
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Islander, in reply to
AND YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THAT IS A POSSIBILITY?
Anyway, from family, it's vote Labour/Labour now. Greens have blown it.
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