Hard News: The next bylaw will ban irony
152 Responses
First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 … 7 Newer→ Last
-
In Timaru and New Plymouth you have the Road Knights and the Magogs respectively -- largely white guys with their roots in the "bikie" era.
The Magogs have a website, call themselves a "motorcyle club" and are kind of respectable. The Road Knights, not so much.
-
Yes, as a regular occurrence Maori TV has a far better schedule of films and documentaries than TV1,2,3.
Agreed - my only beef is that I usually miss anything good, because Maori TV programme details do not appear in the MySky guide screen.
-
The Magogs have a website, call themselves a "motorcyle club" and are kind of respectable. The Road Knights, not so much.
I do need to finess my last comment a little wrt 'all established gangs being criminals'.
It's not impossible that an independent group like the Magogs could have gone 'respectable' as the core members get older and less inclined towards hell-raising. However, claims like this do need to be examined closely. The HA have been running a sucessful PR campaign along these lines for decades - 'just a club for like-minded guys to get together and ride bikes. All that crime stuff is just nasty slurs from The Man'. Ya RLY.
If there's ever a serious bikie turf war between the majors down that way (not very likely, but it might happen), they'll either be patched-over by the winner or cease to exist.
The Road Knights are strongly rumoured to have a lot of connections with some very unpleasant people - the Harris gang in Chch and SI white power groups, for example.
-
The Magogs have a website, call themselves a "motorcyle club" and are kind of respectable.
Named after the Biblical giants?
-
From my limited experience of the breed, it was the casual brutality, glorification of criminality and abuse of women, and utter disdain for the property and human dignity of 'outsiders' that churned my stomach.
Completely agree, having had some more than limited experience with the breed - you can't choose your family - funny to think that I know of people from other more 'mainstream' groups who occupy much the same territory too...
-
There's some logic missing there. I doubt public safety will be improved at all.
I agree that it's not logical and probably won't work. I'm presuming public safety is the 'argument' behind the ban, rather than just because Whanganui folk don't like the look of it.
I don't think that banning patches will "work" for Whanganui in so far as making it any safer for the public (possibly less safe with a move to colours). Sure, you can argue that the ban may lead to less intimidation of the public, but presumably people will be equally intimidated by gatherings of people wearing colours. So what was the point?
If there's any point at all, it would be that it would turn 'I don't think that banning patches will "work"' to 'I know that banning patches didn't "work"'. And I'm entirely open to the idea that we could be surprised. There could be a drop in gang related violence in the banned areas. That's not something to ignore (if it happens).
Would anyone say that I wasn't 'asking for it' if I did?
I wouldn't (but I wouldn't go drawing any comparisons using that particular phrase, either, as the situation is somewhat different.)
Heh, that's probably wise since if you wouldn't say I wasn't asking for it, then that kind of implies you think I was. I shouldn't have used the negative. So you think it wouldn't be asking for it to wear a gang's patches in Whanganui, despite not only not being in the Black Power, but also not even being the least bit dark? I think in theory you are right, but I would not risk it.
Mind you, I would not wear a police uniform anywhere. That gang would get real bitter if they saw me in their patches.
-
Named after the Biblical giants?
Yes, but I'm pretty sure it's 'as viewed through the filter of Irish mythology', in this particular case.
-
Heh, that's probably wise since if you wouldn't say I wasn't asking for it, then that kind of implies you think I was. I shouldn't have used the negative. So you think it wouldn't be asking for it to wear a gang's patches in Whanganui, despite not only not being in the Black Power, but also not even being the least bit dark? I think in theory you are right, but I would not risk it.
Actually, I missed the negative entirely; I would not say you deserved to have violence committed upon you, even if it was quite predictable that you would, because no-one deserves to be beaten up for what they're wearing. I wouldn't feel as sorry for you as I otherwise might, because it was predictable, but it still wouldn't be deserved.
However, given that "asking for it" in quotemarks is usually used of situations vis a vis women and sexual assault where the phrase is entirely inappropriate, and we've just had a whole protracted thread on the matter of clothes-wearing and the signals it sends in that context, I wasn't sure it was the best phrasing. TL;DR: I read too much into things.
-
I'm presuming public safety is the 'argument' behind the ban, rather than just because Whanganui folk don't like the look of it.
I was discussing this law, and Gio's excellent crack upthread, with some colleagues today. One of them supported the ban, simply because it would annoy gang members. And I think that is definitely a motivation for people who support this law. Gang members swagger around in their regalia, let's take them down a peg by stripping it off them.
This law isn't based on any sort of rational policy or consideration of actions and consequences. It's about the realm of the symbolic.
-
Lucy, I saw your women "asking for it" angle, although it's a pretty common phrase in other contexts too. It was semi-deliberate, to show that people feeling intimidated from wearing whatever they like is a pretty slack situation. That is not, btw, an argument for the city to just take over and use police to stop all people wearing their gear. It's more to show that there was a problem, that it's not just imaginary. These patches are causing strife, or at least they are being used as excuses for strife. Perhaps the strife will continue, since it is most likely driven by underlying causes. But then again, perhaps there will be a decline.
In many ways it's like the laws against offensive language. They are, to some extent, worth having, because offensive language is very often a precursor to violence, and is certainly used to intimidate people and whip up anger. If it gives the police an ability to immediately defuse a silly situation from going sillier, on account of something which is basically pretty silly in itself, then they are sometimes helping matters quite a lot. They can take the person using the language away, give them time to cool down, then arse about trying to prosecute something so inconsequential, or just let the person off with a warning. Assuredly it can't prevent the person from going straight back to the scene, but it might help.
So my feeling is kind of "lets wait and see" on this one. Just as laws against offensive language haven't stop wild arguments turning into brutal and/or lethal fights, I doubt the patch ban will do much. Not enough for the human rights angle to be ignored.
-
It's more to show that there was a problem, that it's not just imaginary.
Thing is, though: what women wear has bugger-all to do with their chances of being assaulted. If the analogy holds, what gang members wear will have very little effect on violent crime. If it does have an effect, then it's a bad analogy.
-
The Road Knights are strongly rumoured to have a lot of connections with some very unpleasant people - the Harris gang in Chch and SI white power groups, for example.
Yeah, they're very much in the mould of the unpleasant Canterbury white-trash gang. Every neighbourhood had a least a little one of those when when I grew up in Christchurch. In the year I spent in Timaru, I heard a few things about the Road Knights. Not nice.
Whereas, I feel bound to say, the Magogs spared me a beating one night when I arguably deserved one in New Plymouth ...
-
Thanks for the references Rich Lock. The mystery of gangs is how the fuck do you stop them forming or how do you reform them.
-
From my limited experience of the breed, it was the casual brutality, glorification of criminality and abuse of women, and utter disdain for the property and human dignity of 'outsiders' that churned my stomach.
Just to endorse that, from my own brief but v. unpleasant experience - when things turn a little sticky with the law/neighbours, the staunch & swaggering 'bros' quickly duck behind the shield of their women & children.
-
Here in Denmark, one of the conservative parties tried to drum up some support by floating a law banning burkhas, which unlike the patches ban, is punishing the perceived victims. Polls immediately showed 65% support, but the idea has quietly fizzled as people wrestled with the practical issues of a ban.
Sadly in both countries the issue of having legislative dress codes being a slippery human rights slope doesn't loom large.The authorities here are having some success however fighting the gangs in what they call Operation Al Capone, where they're nailing them again and again on tax and other violations secondary to their apparently dodgy business models.
-
Today's Laws news: behaving like a great flaming cock towards some schoolkids.
Gawd.
-
Gawd.
I see your 'Gawd' and raise you a 'Yeesh'.
There appears to be very little distinction between Laws the talkback host and Laws the mayor...
At least in Auckland we have a nice mayor.
-
The most troublesome gang in Whanganui is surely the one led by Mayor Laws, namely the council (excepting those members not agreeing wth the insignia ban). If this bylaw is resisted, all sorts of Police resources may be tied up.
It is no barrel of fun having close contact with most patched gangs but the mincing Mr Law’s petty authoritarianism should not be supported just because the targets are unpopular. Dare I say it, but who will be next?...also no ones mentioned the “Filthy Few”, a highly descriptive old fashioned gang moniker.
-
I suspect Laws actually enjoys offending people, and thrives on the publicity. His is an ego out of control.
This unfortunately gives the voters of Wanganui the impression he gets things done. Which is why they keep voting the clown back in.
-
At least in Auckland we have a nice mayor.
Oh for the irony tag.
-
I suspect Lhaws actually enjoys offending people, and thrives on the publicity. His is an ego out of control.
One would hope being, as Russell put it so descriptively, a flaming cock to twelve-year-olds - with a big dash of thinly-veiled racism to boot - might get him some actual consequences.
(I actually suspect he believed his own bollocks about the teacher putting them up to it and was responding to the teacher, which is still totally unacceptable as well as idiotic, but might explain the extent of the dickishness towards schoolkids. Or, you know. He's just that much of a dick.)
-
"Finally there is going to be a consequence for joining a gang.
Haha, ''Sorry Mum I cant come to Wanganui"
-
Wanganui /Whanganui
-
The mystery of gangs is how the fuck do you stop them forming or how do you reform them.
Can I have a simple 'starter for 10' first to get me warmed up?
The authorities here are having some success however fighting the gangs in what they call Operation Al Capone, where they're nailing them again and again on tax and other violations secondary to their apparently dodgy business models.
I would imagine the authorities in Denmark are not exactly lacking in motivation when it comes to cracking down on bikies, following the piffling and insignificant incidents of minor disorder at the end of last century.
The Magogs spared me a beating one night when I arguably deserved one in New Plymouth
So you were asking for it, right....?
One way to tell whether or not the Magogs have 'gone respectable' is to see if they are flying a "1%er" patch on their colours. If they are, then they still consider themselves to be an 'outlaw' motocycle club. If not, then there may be some merit in the claims of (semi-)respectablility.
also no ones mentioned the “Filthy Few”, a highly descriptive old fashioned gang moniker
The 'Filthy Few' in NZ are a bike gang in their own right. They are still active (there were a bunch of them wandering around in their colours at the Paeroa street races last year). They have chapters in Rotorua, Waihi and Tauranga.
Overseas, the 'Filthy Few' designation applies to Hells Angels who have (alledgedly) killed for the gang. They get to wear an 'SS' patch on their colours. Charming chaps, the lot of them.
-
Today's Laws news: behaving like a great flaming cock towards some schoolkids.
Meh... I've seen first-hand how Laws treats uppity adults who have the gall to disagree with him, why should the yoof be treated any differently? Unfortunately, I can't spill the details without violating an (innocent) third party's privacy in a pretty humiliating and gratuitous manner, but I came to the conclusion a looong time ago that he's a very thin-skinned and vindictive piece of work.
Post your response…
This topic is closed.