Hard News: The Letter
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
He’d cite some variant of free and frank advice from Ede et al
Except that that only plays for OIA requests. Unless he was going to try and play the "national security/police methods" card to blunt discovery, he'd have no choice about disclosure when presented with a lawsuit; I can't see a judge being too sympathetic to that prime ministerial "I'm not sayin' nuttin'!" utterance, either.
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The donation to the Hawke's Bay Rowing Club has been confirmed.
Further down the story:
Mr Key revealed yesterday that he had known of Liu's statement for some weeks.
However, this morning he said he had no information on whether the donations claimed by Liu had been handled improperly by Labour.
Labour President Moira Coatsworth has been among those including Labour Leader David Cunliffe and Mr Key calling for Mr Liu to put up evidence to substantiate his claims.
The party was being expected to investigate claims "that no evidence has been provided for."
What I've done is speak to a senior barrister. If there is evidence that is presented that we need to consider then we'll move but at the moment we have a completely unsubstantiated allegation.
Meanwhile, National Party President Peter Goodfellow once again refused to comment on whether National had received any donations from Liu other than the $22,000 disclosed in 2012.
Mr Goodfellow said that was a question for Liu.Mr Key said he had sought no assurances from Mr Goodfellow about any other donations by Liu to National.
"I am very confident that National acts within the law and is as transparent as it needs to be."
Mr Key certainly is chillaxed to the max. We can only imagine what the response would be if Cunliffe declared he wasn't interested in asking his own party president about donations.
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Rob Stowell, in reply to
Savage took up Whaleoil’s Len Brown story and pivoted the whole thing to point at the perpetrators.
Palino disappeared in a puff of denial – it’s like he was never there.
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Rob Stowell, in reply to
Prime Minister John Key - who has known of Donghua Liu's claims of large donations to the Labour Party for some weeks - today said he was not aware of any suggestions Labour did not follow the rules with regard to any such payments.
Nudge nudge wink wink, 'Cunliffe's letter is the least of Labour's problems' [confidential grin]
Bit too cute.His comment comes as Labour readies big legal guns for its defence in the event evidence of improper donations from Liu emerges.
"In the event' seems a little coy?
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
electoral finance
Seems to me that
National oft equates
'electoral' with 'folderol'
watch Epsom & Ohariu
jump through the hoopla -
Rowing Club. And a wine auction for a Hospice seems nowt to do with Labour. So, so far ,there is $2000 to a rowing Club that Barker's daughter rows at and Barker introduced Liu to. Barker has never said he didn't know Liu, quite the opposite.
TBH, I'm now more interested in Susan Chou and what if any links she has to Oravida. She is one well off woman, who donates to National permanently it would seem ;) -
Sacha, in reply to
Just heard the RNZ news clip. Outrageous. Does this PM really not grasp the difference between a politician and a journo?
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Russell Brown, in reply to
His comment comes as Labour readies big legal guns for its defence in the event evidence of improper donations from Liu emerges.
“In the event’ seems a little coy?
They’d be morons if they didn’t seek to establish their legal position in the event of anything unfortunate being discovered. Jeez.
Tim Murphy and Jared Savage have been fairly active on Twitter around this. Neither of them answered my polite request for clarification on whether the “$50,000 gift to the Labour Party” was in their view any more than the slap-up Liu staff dinner Barker says he attended.
It’s hard not to feel they’ve over-egged it.
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Sacha, in reply to
yolky blowback
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Does this PM really not grasp the difference between a politician and a journo?
The Fuknuckle thinks he's everyone to everything. His shit don't stink. We NZers really just don't care. Snapper is more important than democracy . Insurers are more important than Chch residents. He can't understand that Mauis Dolphins don't need more interference in their habitat, one which may have some exploration but any more could prove fatal.He thinks the Greens are Mumbo Jumbo, Otago University studies are not worth acknowledging and the largest group of Mammal Scientists in the world are begging him to take notice. He is now fudging his insinuation propaganda against Labour. He can't tell us any answers to any questions, but he will tell us this....crap crap crap.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
yolky blowback
I’m not uberstanding this ….. it seems to me , if anyone needs answers to verify anything, avoidance is suppression and journalists need to be getting their Jon Stephenson thing on if they want respec’
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And frankly Craig R, whilst I understand you know the ins and outs of accounting and probably what National are capable of, I'll take it you know more than me and I'll take it, you aren't that impressed, but to insinuate that Labour do dodgy deals because the law states that anonymous and hidden donations are acceptable , I'd proffer that we set up a petition to have more clarity. I firmly believe if Labour get in, we could convince them of that, National, not so much. At least Susan Chou wouldn't mind.
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Sacha, in reply to
We NZers really just don't care
more the problem, yes. Guys like that can't do their thing without our approval, no matter how misguided.
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So this story has simply vanished from Herald and Stuff today. What happened? Not that I’m interested, but I was expecting it to go on and on (actually I was counting on it to get me past my last exams, safely away from the Internet).
I’m sensing it got shut down, so completely has the sound and fury turned into silence.
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Damage done, move the conversation on.
The PM is washing his hands of it: “That’s something for Labour and Liu to work out”. As if he and his party had no part in spreading the story when it looked bad for Labour.
The Herald and Liu are back-pedalling and covering their tracks without ever apologising or retracting.
One of the nastier bits of politicking I’ve seen in NZ.
And the Herald’s role in spreading false muck looks increasingly dodgy: probably not the instigator, but enabler and side-kick. I’d be feeling bloody ashamed if I was them. -
Sorry if I missed others’ discussion of it, but Rudman’s piece today on rich buffoons largely sums up my concerns.
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BenWilson, in reply to
I’d be feeling bloody ashamed if I was them.
I'd be worried about getting sued.
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As Rob notes, Liu has changed his story -- and if I'm reading this right, he counts the $50-60,000 dinner for his staff as part of the "nearly" $100,000 he claims to have donated to Labour.
So the fabled"$100,000 for a bottle of wine" -- which is now explicitly less than $100,000 -- is now what he "believes" to have donated in total and well over half of it is what he spent on a dinner for his own staff in China.
And the $150,000 is now clearly and absolutely wrong. I think a more explicit clarification from the Herald is very much in order now.
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BenWilson, in reply to
And the $150,000 is now clearly and absolutely wrong. I think a more explicit clarification from the Herald is very much in order now.
I'm pretty sure that a "clarification" that completely contradicts something said earlier is technically called a retraction.
ETA: Although I'd settle for them choosing a sacrificial columnist to get punched in the nose on camera by Cunliffe. Ideally, for the karma of it, that columnist should be Bob Jones.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
One picture tells many stories...?
As Rob notes, Liu has changed his story –
or the Herald has...
Wednesday June 18:
A Labour Cabinet Minister presented a bottle of wine to the partner of businessman Donghua Liu at a fundraiser for the party.
The Herald has obtained a photograph of Rick Barker with Juan Zhang, who has two children with Liu, after he won an auction for the bottle at an Auckland restaurant in June 2007.Monday June 23:
Rick Barker was hosted by Liu at a lavish dinner on a cruise up the Yangtze River in 2007 and was photographed presenting Juan Zhang, who has two children with Liu, 56, with the large bottle signed by then Prime Minister Helen Clark.
(is this another photograph with another bottle of wine, in China, or the same photo above?)
Wednesday June 25:
Left, Rick Barker receiving a bottle of wine from Donghua Liu's (top right) partner Juan Zhang. Photo / Supplied, NZ Herald
(Same photo)
Which is correct?
or is it a tug of war with the bottle?
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RNZ reports Labour considering legal options.
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RNZ reports Labour considering legal options.
This is a very dumb idea.
Media types, any mileage in a Press Council complaint on this?
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This is a very dumb idea.
I am not sure if Labour has much choice, or much to lose. They have no choice because this orchestrated farrago of lies and innuendo from the Herald and the National Party cannot be allowed to simply die and leave a bad impression. Not three months out from an election. At least taking legal action – if only until after the election – will get the message out to the electorate that the Herald concocted a smear. And given the collusion between National and the Herald on this, Labour has little to lose by declaring to the general public that it considers the Herald to be a hostile witness.
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
Why? It's quite possibly libel.
It isn't like Lange v Atkinson, which was about a vague allegation of being a "lazy prime minister", it's more like Lange v ABC which was about a specific allegation of buying influence. Lange won the latter case (in Australia).
Apart from anyone else, a libel case against John Key might discover who whispers in his ear and how much coordination of attack lines he and the NZ Herald engage in.
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Sacha, in reply to
They seem to be considering action more against Liu.
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