Hard News: The Digital Natives
152 Responses
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Sacha, in reply to
If I had lots of money, I'd share it around
damn straight. I regret not being wealthier.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
damn straight. I regret not being wealthier.
Me too Sacha. My life is ok tho. But man I'd love to be able to shower those that never get anything.
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BenWilson, in reply to
The old tension between the techy lower-stack geeks and the layer 7 ‘what is it used for’ folk continues.
I don't think this is an example of that at all. Layer 7 people do at least typically use the internet heavily, even if they have no idea how it works.
Most young people don’t care about the pumbing. They just want a future that connects – and flushes – when needed.
They do, however, know that when the plumbing is broken, you hire a plumber, not a lawyer.
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BenWilson, in reply to
And honestly, I’d be shocked if Lalia Harre couldn’t do that.
I'm sure she'll do an admirable job of pushing her long held and well known agenda. I don't even have a problem with that agenda. I just thought that the Internet Party might have been a change, something new. I thought it might actually be something that might reach out to more people than are already covered by the existing parties. Silly me.
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BenWilson, in reply to
So you expect an expert geek? To lead a political Party? I think it’s “youth” that’s the direction they are heading .
So they recycle an old politician? Hmmm.
And ? This National Govt has shown complete manipulation of the Electoral system totally within MMP and the public have voted that that’s ok.
Look, I'm not saying I dislike Harre, or Mana, nor am I against Dotcom completely bankrolling them to the tune of millions if that's his bag. I also don't think he deserves to be extradited for what he did, and don't really have anything against him. I hope his money helps Mana grow their vote.
But I also can't feel any love for this "Internet" party. I really no longer see the point of it. I'm hoping Harre can enlighten me why I'd vote for IP rather than Mana. Because if she can't do that, then whatever buzz they had picked up is going to come crashing down in a screaming heap, real soon. And as I see it, she doesn't even have an interest in doing that. Because Mana party votes are votes for her. To her personally, it would make no difference.
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The Girl from IP Mana...
I think the 'Internet' referred to in the Internet Party,
embraces the concept of social connectivity,
rather than the engineering side...To be more accurate it could be the App Party
but that triggers with 'Apartheid' and 'Apathy',
and NZIP was never gonna float...how about Mañana.
the 'Tomorrow Party'?
no?But it is what it is, buckle up,
Laila Harre and the Rebel Alliance
are here to kick Supreme Chancellor Key
and his clone cronies, into a black hole!More popcorn for row 23!
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
So they recycle an old politician? Hmmm
I hear there's still pure DOS ticking at the heart of Windows...
needs must...
:- )
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
So they recycle an old politician? Hmmm.
If it's the youth vote they are after, they wont remember Laila from when they were in nappies. ;) She's a newby and if kids find Key attractive, Laila kicks arse.
They did need a confident seasoned person and one acceptable to Mana. I think she is the right mix for both Parties. Who knows, we could end up with a Socialist Party out of this. -
Rich of Observationz, in reply to
As a techy lower stack geek myself, I agree wholeheartedly.
If they'd had parliamentary democracy in 15th century Germany, I wonder if they'd have had a "Printing Party" and people whinging that its leader really didn't have a deep enough knowledge of movable type.
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BenWilson, in reply to
If they’d had parliamentary democracy in 15th century Germany, I wonder if they’d have had a “Printing Party” and people whinging that its leader really didn’t have a deep enough knowledge of movable type.
One thing is for sure, if there was a leader who couldn't even read or write, there would be plenty of people who would say that didn't matter at all, so long as they showed enough pedigree. Because there will always be courtiers, calling themselves "realists", who think that movements form around the internecine machinations of elite cliques, rather than the underlying technologies that drive them.
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BenWilson, in reply to
Sold. I'm voting for Bill English, because Layer 7.
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I was expecting a job. Since I've got no qualifications or ideological alignment, I'm the perfect candidate. But I'm probably a wee bit too young.
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Anyone else thinking IPMana joining a Lab/Green government would make it considerably more difficult for a Labour/Green minister of justice to rule against KCD being extradited, even if they favoured that on its merits?
The claim from Key (parroted widely) that that’s the whole point, Kim Dotcom is buying a shot at foiling his extradition, is just not credible.
Hone and Laila have both said it’s never been raised. They don’t strike me as lying. f
Further, Mana don’t have it to sell. They have zero chance of getting the Justice portfolio. A Lab/Green govt would be wildly stupid to agree to it in coalition talks. What could Mana threaten? Not to go to National. Another election wouldn’t help them either.
If we do get a change of Govt, helped by IPMana, this will be hanging over them like the sword of doom. All up, I reckon it makes extradition more likely.
But maybe Key is a little rattled. Maybe it’s facing an opponent who’s much wealthier? More likely: the IP entering is likely to repeatedly focus attention on his series of statements surrounding what and when he knew about the spying and the raid. TV3’s timelines look quite convincing. This is one of his weakest points. Not something National will want the election to keep in the media. -
There's a very good argument that indirect copyright infringement shouldn't be a criminal matter. It would be reasonable for a future government, in general but especially if the court finds against Dotcom, to look at reforming our copyright legislation to make this clear.
If they passsed such a change, then Dotcom could in theory still be extradited as his conduct was illegal under NZ law at the time of the offence. But I would think that he'd have a very good case to avoid extradition.
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BenWilson, in reply to
The claim from Key (parroted widely) that that’s the whole point, Kim Dotcom is buying a shot at foiling his extradition, is just not credible.
I’ll give you that it’s disputable. But it’s not incredible. Dotcom showed no interest at all in NZ politics until he was facing these charges*, and his party formed it’s most basic principles in direct opposition to what is happening to him. He is pouring huge amounts of money into it, and would appear to be quite willing to hand over most of what it seemed to stand for initially just to get a real practical shot at having a representative in Parliament. That comes across as very desperate to me.
Hone and Laila have both said it’s never been raised. They don’t strike me as lying
Well politicians are natural born liars, so their body language is hardly going to give much away. But even if it’s true that it has not been overtly discussed, you have to be willfully blind not to see that it’s a massive agenda here. Dotcom doesn’t even have to say anything to them, they just have to like having his money to spend, in order to wish to strongly protect his rights, especially since they are openly sanctioned to do exactly the thing that all politicians most want, to raise their profile and increase their power.
If we are so ready to raise this argument every single time National works in the interests of power and money, what stops it from being a compelling argument here? Nothing.
Which brings us to the more useful argument. It’s not about whether or not Dotcom is buying influence. That’s ridiculously obviously the case. It’s about whether it is right for him to do so. Whether it is ethical to be bought in such a way, whether our system is meant to work like this. And that is where the objections of the likes of Key fall down. That is precisely how our system works. All that is objectionable is how blatant it is. That it’s only a tiny bit more blatant than the obvious connection between Key’s colossal wealth and his accelerated ride to being the most powerful man in NZ. Key doesn’t want that shoved in everyone’s face by some fat foreign barbarian that he is just a leaner more Kiwi version himself, a person who made his wealth in a way that many find highly objectionable, is hard to pin down on any principles, and has no scruples about using political power to advantage his mates at every turn, or allying even with complete twits like Banks just to cement that.
*Other than to buy a politician to ease his right to reside here, that is. It didn’t seem to matter to him at all what that politician stood for, that he was virtually the antithesis of the Mana Party.
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Rob Stowell, in reply to
Maybe I'm blind but you have to trust me it's not willful :)
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BenWilson, in reply to
They have zero chance of getting the Justice portfolio.
A low chance, maybe, depending on the extent to which they hold the balance of power. But getting the Justice portfolio is obviously not the only way to wield influence over this. They just have to make it clear what they want and how much they want it, and Justice can take it's impartial and majestic course <sarcasm>.
What could Mana threaten? Not to go to National.
To not support the government. That could easily be enough to give a concession over, it's not like Labour's got a horn to do KDC in anyway. If Labour can't form a government without them, then that could actually mean a National Party minority government. I really don't think that Labour would want to go through that, just to hold out on a minor issue.
This is, of course, IF Mana/IP hold the balance of power, which is, in itself, highly unlikely at this point. I think it's more unlikely since IP made a leadership decision that will be unlikely to reach out to a new demographic of support. They're banking on the Mana brand itself, with sufficient money. I hope they do better than they did last time. I really do.
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Rob Stowell, in reply to
I guess we just see this differently. I think Labour would say no if such a deal were offered. It'd look too bad. And there'd be incredible scrutiny and a threat to relations with the US etc etc. At which point Hone and Harre allowing National back would be curtains for both.
Why is KDC throwing so much at this then? First I get the impression $3m isn't much to him. And he's likely to lose it anyway. Ego and grievance is probably part if it. He'd like to take down the government. Plus a sense of mischief. And maybe somewhere in there a desire to help others. It's not impossible :) -
BenWilson, in reply to
First I get the impression $3m isn’t much to him. And he’s likely to lose it anyway. Ego and grievance is probably part if it. He’d like to take down the government. Plus a sense of mischief. And maybe somewhere in there a desire to help others. It’s not impossible :)
I think all of those are true to some extent as well.
I think Labour would say no if such a deal were offered. It’d look too bad. And there’d be incredible scrutiny and a threat to relations with the US etc etc.
I don't think it would look that bad to oppose something that is, after all, a pretty extraordinary measure by those seeking KDC's extradition. I actually think it looks quite a lot worse to allow it.
As to a threat to relations with the US, pffff. They threaten that to everyone about everything. At best it's a threat to relations with Hollywood, which is not the whole US, and as if Hollywood is going to pull the pin on NZ. They get a sweeeeet deal from us already. If anything, that itself should be used as plenty heaps of reasons NOT to let them extradite people from here over something that is barely considered criminal by a huge segment of the population, and which is indulged in on a far more massive scale all around the world by many, many people, including in the USA itself.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
But maybe Key is a little rattled. Maybe it’s facing an opponent who’s much wealthier? More likely: the IP entering is likely to repeatedly focus attention on his series of statements surrounding what and when he knew about the spying and the raid. TV3’s timelines look quite convincing. This is one of his weakest points. Not something National will want the election to keep in the media.
Chances are that Edward Snowden hasn't yet revealed everything about NZ's connections with the NSA.
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Sacha, in reply to
ready for publication in August, perhaps
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More strategic MMP genius from Labour (loyal footsoldiers, that's your cue to shoot the messenger):
The Greens are promising free healthcare up to the age of 18, and a new carbon tax on big emitters, with tax cuts for individuals and businesses.
But likely Government partner Labour has zero response: a spokesman says they only comment on National's policies these days.
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BenWilson, in reply to
Not sure that's really so bad. If they endorse the policy, it's something for National to attack them with. The Greens can fight to defend their own policy. At least Labour are not wasting energy and camera time arguing with the Greens.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Not sure that’s really so bad. If they endorse the policy, it’s something for National to attack them with. The Greens can fight to defend their own policy. At least Labour are not wasting energy and camera time arguing with the Greens.
Agreed. No matter what they say, certain reporters will extrapolate it in potentially unhelpful ways. And it’s not Labour’s job to deliver commentary on the Greens’ policies. It makes more sense to focus on their own policies and on opposing the party they oppose.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
ready for publication in August, perhaps
In which case it'll probably run into whatever it is Whaleoil is saving for later in the year. I can see a lot of merit in Labour and the Greens standing clear of the mess.
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