Hard News: See you Latta, Bob ...
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I too am relieved that the review has found that the mayhem predicted by Family First and others has still ... um ... not arrived at all.
However I am also frustrated that the continual (FF) debate over individual cases diverts focus away from the groundbreaking repeal of section 59. Even if the review had found some problems with implementation, this would still not have provided the ammunition against the law its opponents continue to seek. There are plenty of perfectly good laws which are found clunky, or ill-fitting, or which are occasionally poorly implemented. This does not, in itself, provide grounds for repeal.
But anyway, on it goes. Maybe the debate will go on so long that eventually the media and public will just get tired of it and subsequently sideline the noise-makers due to lack of interest. We can but hope.
PS I thought it might be the child discipline law which transformed me into an ex-lurker :)
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BG,
Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
Oooh. Are we doing bible quotes? How about:
Psalms 137:9: "How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock"
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Oooh. Are we doing bible quotes?
Exactly. As Dawkins illustrates very clearly in The God Delusion , wherever we get our moral code from, it's sure not the Bible. Divinely-mandated infanticide and incest being exhibits A and B. Much of it is reprehensible by modern standards - and any attempt to follow it literally would lead you directly to jail, without passing go.
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The Lord has spoken.
Right now he's telling me to eat another afghan.
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BG,
Right now he's telling me to eat another afghan
Don't worry, that's in the bible too.
"I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh during the stress of the siege imposed on them by the enemies who seek their lives. "
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Latta did strike me as being someone likely to be far more subtle than his show was able (or intended) to show.
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The Herald calls him "Dr Latta". This honorific doesn't seem to appear on Latta's website, where he notes his psychology qualifications are an MPhil degree and a postgraduate diploma. Neither of which a "Doctor" make.
More notably, this same story feature PM Key basically giving parents carte blanche to go back to smacking their kids provided it's "light". Which is not what the law Key voted for actually says, but apparently he, not Parliament, is the supreme authority on such matters.
It does occur to me that he'd be better off dispensing light smacks to errant Cabinet ministers.
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Jesus wept.
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I suspect someone with a high media profile like Latta was necessary (whether it was intentional or not) to offset the stream of shite issuing from Family Fist's arsehole.
Someone more qualified but anonymous would have been easily overlooked by the headline-skimming majority of the population.
Latta did strike me as being someone likely to be far more subtle than his show was able (or intended) to show
Personally, I hated his recent series on 'how to state the bleeding obvious', and 'how to demolish a straw man'. But I happened to pick up and read his book recently, and consequently I've got a lot more respect for him than I did previously.
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As we've reached for the book of answers already, he's the counter for Bob et al.
Proverbs -The True Security
3:31 Do not envy the violent and do not choose any of their ways;
3:32 for the perverse are an abomination to the Lord, but the upright are in his confidence.
3:33 The Lord's curse is on the houseof the wicked, but the upright aere in his confidence.Otherwise known as - don't hit your kids, its wrong and CYFs & the Cops will nab ya.
Sirach - True and False Wisdom
37:20 A skillfull speaker may be hated; he will be destitute of all food,
37:21 for the lord has withheld the gift of charm, since he is lacking in all wisdom, -
"It does occur to me that he'd be better off dispensing light smacks to errant Cabinet ministers."
But that will show up in the expense accounts that are now being published.
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It's mildly amusing to see the teabaggers now dissing Mr Latta as being in the pay of the Nanny State. When they sense they're backed into a corner, they typically reach for the big red button that reads 'DEFCON 1'.
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I stand corrected. Cook's determination was released last week. His grievance was dismissed. I should have a copy soon. I'm only reporting what someone else told me so it could be wrong.
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It's mildly amusing to see the teabaggers now dissing Mr Latta as being in the pay of the Nanny State. When they sense they're backed into a corner, they typically reach for the big red button that reads 'DEFCON 1'.
It's not even remotely surprising though, is it? This debate has never been about the facts of the matter, the repeal of Section 59 has been an ideological stalking horse and nothing more. All that'll happen now is that the media will go to Michael Laws or Ben Lummis instead of Latta.
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Latta on TV1 (as linked by the Herald & DeepRed), thinks that CYFs should turn up if one guy shouts at a kid but that it's 'good' for other parents to hit their kids.
So it isn't about the treatment of children at all, but who the parents are. It starts to make sense now. I bet I can pick good parents out a bit easier now.
He also considers it conservative for the authorities to turn up at the slightest hint of abuse. I thought that would be being PC.
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More notably, this same story feature PM Key basically giving parents carte blanche to go back to smacking their kids provided it's "light". Which is not what the law Key voted for actually says, but apparently he, not Parliament, is the supreme authority on such matters
Exactly. If he actually said that, the Herald should've been right up in his grill about it. I thought Key had handled things very well until I read that. Perhaps he's a friggin' idiot after all.
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I thought that would be being PC.
Given that PC means nothing more nor less than "something right wingers don't like", you'll have to pop over to kiwiblog and see if they're for it (in which case it's the "common sense of mainstream New Zealanders") or against it (in which case it's "PC"). Simple, really.
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Exactly. If he actually said that...
Which is quite an assumption to make where The Herald is concerned. Sorry, but someone had to say it.
The Herald quotes him as saying:
The Herald also had to print a grovelling apology to Sharon Shipton for quoting her saying that she was leaving her husband, which was a considerable surprise to her. So pardon me if my scepticism remains intact.
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Exactly. If he actually said that, the Herald should've been right up in his grill about it. I thought Key had handled things very well until I read that. Perhaps he's a friggin' idiot after all.
The Herald quotes him as saying:
"Lightly smacking a child will be in the course of parenting for some parents and I think that's acceptable. It is up to individual parents to decide how they're going to parent their children ... Some people will continue to lightly smack their child for correction, some will not. It is up to them to decide."
I'm not very relaxed about that.
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3410,
Key doesn't seem to realise that there's a difference between his position (on an issue) as the representative of the government and his personal opinion. He's forever answering the latter when being questioned on the former.
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Given that PC means nothing more nor less than "something right wingers don't like", you'll have to pop over to kiwiblog and see if they're for it (in which case it's the "common sense of mainstream New Zealanders") or against it (in which case it's "PC").
Because I'm always up for rushing in where angels fear to tread:
The recommendations headings: ‘Greater transparency’, ‘Better support for parents’, and ‘Improved monitoring’
… but nothing about that little problem of 100’s of thousands of good parents being criminalised as a result of a law that is doing nothing to address the real cause of child abuse.
JK is ramming this PoS law down our throats with BS time-wasting reports and stall tactics that is more characteristic of other political persuasions.
The real issue is kept isolated from the masses by all the noise generated around whether one should or shouldn’t smack children, fueled by countless so-called “examples” from both sides of the fence.
The biggest issue for me – YOU TOOK AWAY MY INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY JOHN KEY YOU DOUCHEBAG!!!!!!!!!!!! AND YOU’LL DO IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!! I AM FROM THE MAJORITY THAT PUT YOU WHERE YOU ARE!
Woah.
Do you think [Latta's] chances of getting another series of his comedy show have just improved? At the taxpayers’ expense of course.
Nigel Latta’s assurances and the PM’s smile are irrelevant. Without law we we cannot have justice; feelgood leads to tyranny.
Yeah, I think the verdict is in from Kiwiblargh. But, stop press: a worthwhile closing point from Danyl McLauchan:
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident"
I really hate that Schopenhauer quote, it misses out that fact that all lies also pass through those first two stages.
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Which is quite an assumption to make where The Herald is concerned. Sorry, but someone had to say it.
Also quoted in stuff, the ODT etc. I think we can take this one as accurate.
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Because I'm always up for rushing in where angels fear to tread:
Stand over there, I'll get the fire hose.
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Key doesn't seem to realise that there's a difference between his position (on an issue) as the representative of the government and his personal opinion. He's forever answering the latter when being questioned on the former.
Which I find rather ironic given how relaxed everyone around here was with Clark proffering an instant opinion on absolutely everything... Meanwhile, what part of "the law works as it stands, we're not repealing it" is Key saying (repeatedly) in Martian?
Also quoted in stuff, the ODT etc. I think we can take this one as accurate.
If that floats your boat, be my guest. I'll just say that there's no magical tipping point where a lie becomes the truth through sheer repetition.
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Stand over there, I'll get the fire hose.
If you would be so kind.
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