Hard News: Moving targets
196 Responses
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Ok, so I’m now aware that the RA definitely doesn’t set the perks; the Speaker does.
What I still don’t get is how stopping pre-1999 ex-MP’s from receiving those perks is retroactively cutting their salaries and making them pay something back.
I’m not trying to be difficult here – I really am woefully ignorant of Parliamentary law and procedures and whatnot, and I am just not getting it (though I do want to).
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Dismal Soyanz, in reply to
tectchy, are we?
McGee says there is no employment contract. That is because the salary-for-service exchange is covered by legislation.He does not say there is no contract at all between Parliament and an MP. If you can show me where McGee says there is no contractual relationship whatsoever, I will happily concede the point.
I only talked about the RA because Phil brought it up as an example of how MP's benefits may be arbitrarily changed. I agree that the RA can arbitrarily change MPs current salaries. And I am happy if the the Speaker removes MP's entitlement from this point onwards. (Actually I am personally not fussed in terms of whether they deserve the perk or not if it were removed retrospectively as well).
So no, I am not saying I know better than McGee - only you are.
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Dismal Soyanz, in reply to
Forget about the salaries - I got sucked into that by Phil. :P
Given that the perk existed when a pre-1999 MP went into Parliament, they became an MP an the expectation that they would receive this perk. In fact, any MP who entered before its removal would be in the same position. What I am saying is that there was an implied contract where Parliament said "You can get this perk of an MP and in return you only have to remain an MP for a certain period of time."
Sure there is no real loss to MPs (hence I don't feel that bad about them losing it) but they were given an expectation. What Phil and nzlemming are saying is that the Speaker can remove it with no recourse on the part of the MP despite the fact that the MP would have had an expectation of having this perk all the time they were serving.
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Put simply, I think some people think that natural justice only covers the folk they like.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
The truly bizarre thing about that non-story is that a $200 million a day state visit is so gloriously, dementedly implausible (even when you allow POTUS isn’t exactly a solo backpacker) someone's bullshit detector should have redlined. As far as I can tell, Russell is on the money – some folks weren’t going to let the exchange rate get in the way of a good story. (200 million rupees is a tad over US$4.5 million.) Still a considerable chunk of change, but even that’s figure’s rather tricky to verify. For pretty obvious reasons – you’re not exactly going to post an itemized budget of your security on-line.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
What I still don’t get is how stopping pre-1999 ex-MP’s from receiving those perks is retroactively cutting their salaries and making them pay something back.
I don't get it either, Peta. Last year, my partner left KiwiRail after working there, in all its Doctor Who-like incarnations, for forty five years. He got a lovely afternoon tea, presented with a watch and model train handed in his key card and parking permit and he was done. No more free train trips to Wellington, either.
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Honestly, I find it rather disingenuous of MPs to pretend that they're hapless victims of a body whose role and powers are strictly delimited by legislation.
...and how they never seem to think the same should apply to the Lumpen Proletariat - the Remuneration Authority should also set wage levels each year for every worker - surely whatever external factors affect parliamentarians, affect the general populace.
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and how they never seem to think the same should apply to the Lumpen Proletariat
I can't imagine anyone would be happy if an employer, post you leaving your work, went in and reduced what is effectively a private superannuation that was part of the employment agreement.
Seems to me that any argument that we can affect pre-1999 MPs is going to fail some fairly basic principle tests on fairness, which we don't get to fail just because we don't particularly like MPs. It should be changed from now on forward just like every other reasonable thing that can be done without looking vindictive.
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Petra, in reply to
Ok, that's a relief. If you're not getting it either, then I know it's not just me being a brainless bint. Whew!
When I worked for Yellow Pages, we absolutely creamed our targets one year. Up until then, bonuses paid on selling over target were not capped. A number of us ended up with almost doubled salaries that year. The following year, Yellow Pages put a cap on bonuses. It wasn't retroactive, and I didn't have to pay back the previous year's bonus. Being employed before they capped the bonus did not exempt me from the new system of capping - it just meant that I couldn't get quite as much for overshooting my target in the future, that is all.
And that's the way it should be for perks for pre-1999 ex-MP's. They still get their milk, they just don't get the cream. Like the rest of us (some of whom even miss out on a little milk, thanks to the past policies of those who continue to lap all the cream). Fuckers.
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Petra, in reply to
re American right wing lies.
“We’ve gone beyond Stephen Colbert’s’ truthiness’ into a ‘truth-be-damned’ environment; what Rick Perlstein described in the Daily Beast as a “mendocracy. As in, rule by liars.”.”
“The scary thing is, these kinds of rumors have a way of taking root in the popular consciousness […] While some of them are garden-variety lunacy, a surprising number are lies that were fed to Americans by our leaders on the far-Right. This demonstrates that media-fed lies can easily become ingrained in the collective memory if they’re not countered quickly and surely.”
Thanks goodness for TinyURL!
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Sacha, in reply to
Put simply, I think some people think that natural justice only covers the folk they like.
You'll be aksing us to respect used car salespeople next :)
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Dismal Soyanz, in reply to
You’ll be aksing us to respect used car salespeople next :)
heh. "Some of my best friends are used car salespeople..."
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“Some of my best friends are used car salespeople…”
so…
I’d be interested to hear how exactly you think China is screwing us?
Documented here:
http://www.js.chinanews.com.cn/news/2008/1231/4095.html(translation) “Pansy Wong said “The strategic location of Lianyungang is unique, offering attractive prospects for her husband Huang Desheng, The New Zealand Chamber of Commerce, and Yang Guangming’s Chinese investment in the Eastern County, the hovercraft company has developed (is developing) rapidly, with product sales and related supporting enterprises this will further expand the introduction of external visibility and reputation of Lianyungang, further strengthening friendly exchanges with New Zealand, building a new platform for economic and trade cooperation. The New Zealand Chinese Chamber of Commerce will give full play to their organizational advantages to attract even more overseas tours, to enhance communication, capture business opportunities, deepen cooperation and promote common development.”
and here:
http://www.js.chinanews.com.cn/news/2008/0723/461.html
并考察了其丈夫黄德生先生与新西兰华人商会会长杨光明先生已联合投资的1亿美元，占地276亩，注册资本4000万美元的连云港市飞浪气垫船有限公司。
(translation) Mr. Huang Desheng and Chinese Chamber of Commerce President Mr. Yang Guangming of New Zealand have jointly invested 100 million U.S. dollars, covering 276 acres, with registered capital of $40,000,000 in Long flying hovercraft Limited in Lianyungang City.
Oxford International Academy supplied 63 students to the bachelor of business studies degree at Albany last year, said Massey University’s communications director James Gardiner.
This year, the number dropped to five after the university’s College of Business started checking that students could prove they spoke adequate English.
Massey reviewed its admission procedures at the Albany campus after it discovered large numbers of students were failing; staff complained many could hardly speak a word of English.
Central Auckland? Hardly speak a word of English? Where were the majority from?
How Fonterra was screwed:
By November 2008 China reported an estimated 300,000 victims,[1] six infants dying from kidney stones and other kidney damage, and a further 860 babies hospitalised….In December 2005, a joint venture agreement was signed which involved New Zealand dairy cooperative Fonterra taking a 43% equity stake in the Chinese dairy[7] by injecting ¥864 million ($100M+NZ)…The Xinhua News Agency reported that Sanlu received its first complaints about baby milk in December 2007.[18][19] Fonterra was alerted to the contamination on 2 August. There was an immediate trade recall, but Fonterra said that local administrators refused an official recall[20]. Fonterra notified the New Zealand government on 5 September. Three days later, Prime Minister, Helen Clark had Beijing officials alerted directly.[20][21] Clark accused the company and officials of covering up to avoid an official recall.[22]….
or how Lion Nathan lost an arm
Dismal Soyanz:Hmmm. Given the extent to which the Ockers, Yanquis and Nips already own NZ Inc, I’m not sure what the additional harm is going to be.
Closer to home, currently a major issue as touched on above is the undermining of western education standards. In August, members of the Australian DET arrived in Beijing to approve a (pre-approved) Beijing degree course as being equivalent to that being provided by the same company in Australia. The Australian branch of the school in essence now provide the degrees offered in Beijing despite gaping standards’ disparities. essentially undermining the value of the qualification provided by this brand in Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere, and ultimately devaluing local western education and graduates.
This is but the tip of an iceberg, and I could go on, but the threats leveled against me thus far suggest I refrain.
So Dismal Soyanz, the harm is that unlike the three nations you alluded to, China has not shown a marked willingness to adhere to our mutually developed standards, and does not ultimately subscribe to these standards. These standards in education, quality control and personal and institutional integrity are in essence the truest most measurable fruits of our civilization’s development. and by allowing them to slip, we regress, enabling a situation where the excellence and consistency that our civilization has been built upon is supplanted by something inferior.
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Something inferior. I'm reminded of an instance not long after I first arrived here when to my horror and skepticism, a local told me that China would effectively own New Zealand by 2006.
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Sam F, in reply to
(whoops - admin please delete)
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Heather W., in reply to
I had assumed Chris had done that deliberately. (If you click on the little red dot it connects to the resignation announcement today from Botany MP Pansy Wong). And further accusations from Labour about dodgy dealings.
Or if you would prefer to see the link – http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4455775/MP-Pansy-Wong-quits-Parliament.
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I had assumed Chris had done that deliberately.
Yes. Sorry Sam, I was going for the symbolic full stop. Ultimately just another exhibition of my own twatcockery.
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Sam F, in reply to
I had assumed Chris had done that deliberately.
Oh, I wasn't referring to Chris' fullstop comment when I said 'please delete' - rather my own which I realised was a superfluous goof not long after posting ... sorry for the confusion Chris!
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No worries Sam. Merry Christmas!
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