Hard News: Let's lynch the liberals!
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I wish you could all (some of you might) also appreciate how embarrassingly wrong he was about the period in Italian history he was trying to school me about. And conflating the wimmin and gayz with the Brigate Rosse? Christ, they were "his" people if anything, economic radicals until the last one of them.
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Trotter's Goff worship is very weird, considering Goff is a solid believer in free markets and social democracy while Trotter is a Marxist-Leninist.
I get the feeling recently Goff met him for dinner, or drinks or something, and Trotter was dazzled by the novelty of having someone important pay attention to him, thus we get these weird 'Phil Goff: Friend o' the working man' essays, and vituperative attacks against anyone Trotter dimly percieves to be Goff's enemy.
I don't think any of it is significant, or germaine to what's happening inside the Labour Party.
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I don't think any of it is significant, or germaine to what's happening inside the Labour Party.
That's my complete outsider's thought as well. The inside of the party is probably a slowly building backlash against Goff and looking ahead to the future after he loses the next election with younger blood.
"Prominent columnist totally misses real story."
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vituperative attacks against anyone Trotter dimly percieves to be Goff's enemy
Actually, he's been making attacks of this nature since well before Goff became leader. There was quite a vicious attack on The Hand Mirror and its "faux feminists" (he, of course is a real one) a year or so back when they showed insufficient "solidarity", and it was hardly unique.
Still, one has to cut him some slack. As we all know, women, maori, LGBT, prawns and so on all arrived on a spaceship only a few years ago and have not yet properly integrated themselves into human civilisation. They need a few pointers on how to behave and he is generously helping in the process of assimilation.
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Although he certainly has the answers, assuming the question is "How can the Labour Party be made unappealing to members and voters alike?"
And even enemies -- which is a real shitter, because there are folks in Labour I do respect, and it would be nice if they didn't feel cornered into defending the indefensible. Otherwise, carry on Sleeper Agent Comrade Trotter-sky.
Still, one has to cut him some slack. As we all know, women, maori, LGBT, prawns and so on all arrived on a spaceship only a few years ago and have not yet properly integrated themselves into human civilisation.
Fuck assimilation, here's The Plan (tm):
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Trotter's attacks on splitters and class enemies are tedious.
And the "Left" that he is fighting for exists only in his head.
IMHO Trotter's turgid posts are best left unread.
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IMHO Trotter's turgid posts are best left unread.
Not a wise move when you've got Goff's senior policy advisor, John Pagani, pretty much jizzing himself over Labour's very own Tea Bagger-in-Chief.
I think this is the most astute reading of the state of left politics that I've seen recently Chris. It's about connecting with things that matter to people and making politics work for people, instead of instructing people in what's good for them and inventing fabrications about the people the left represents.
That's the kind of advice Goff is getting, and his caucus is quite happy to tacitly enable.
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Not a wise move when you've got Goff's senior policy advisor, John Pagani, pretty much jizzing himself over Labour's very own Tea Bagger-in-Chief.
That's the thing that gets me. I can see how Trotter would have no trouble securing a column "from the left" in our right wing press - he's sectarian, he's divisive, and most importantly he's not very good. But why a top party strategist would want to publicly endorse him is completely beyond me. It's either stupid, or spiteful, or both. Unless of course Pagani knows his days and Goff's are numbered, and has started firing parting shots.
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Fuck assimilation, here's The Plan (tm):
Since I'm not into piercings, the Cylons are certainly cooler to me than the Borg. They even know Yeats - did you catch the Hybrid's all-too-appropriate inversion of "The Second Coming"?
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Malthusianism: getting it wrong for 200 years and counting.
Though there are no hints on finding a different model to discuss population growth, I could just put out a graph on the development of the world population and look at the similarity to an exponential function.
I am surely aware of the fact that in western countries population reproduction would be an issue without immigration. Though the population growth in other parts of the world is strong enough to balance that deficit.
A linear growth in food production is a quiete optimistic assumption, even if we still have the possibility to achieve additional growth on charge of future generations. Just to name loss of soil and genetically engineered plants able to crossbreed with natural populations.
I also think that the Green obsession with zero-growth economics is a tad embarrassing.
I don't see zero-growth as a dogma, but there is still much potential for redirecting capital inside the economy. And as we have seen in the recession not long ago, some of the economic growth, which appears inside statistics, just exists on the papers.
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the question is whether they can continue to exist. I might agree with you, but I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I was trying to express my opinion that we can sustain a larger community and that this growth is limited by the resources we have.
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This is a really boring dispute. Active moderation would require me taking a stance on it and I can't be bothered with that.
So let's just say that the next of the squabbling parties to continue the squabble shall be deemed at fault.
OK its no big deal but in the interests of consistency, you took a stance when you actively moderated/deleted my post, even though i got it in before you posted that one. you then qualified your stance in your following post.
Oh brilliant, pollywog -- you managed to win the race by posting a stupid comment while I was still writing the above.
I've deleted it. Just take a break for a while, huh?
so what did i win ? you shouldn't have deleted it and krackalite can stick his trolling insults and advice up his arse though i will accept his apology.
and is it too much to ask russell, that you also be consistent ?
now heres a thing i 've noticed about on line communities from lots of first hand experience ben.
everyone starts out equal and mostly anonymous. sure you may know some people in real life, they may even be friends so posters allow a certain freedom for their real life acquaintances to express themselves a bit more vigourously in their posts.
as time goes by, alliances form with others of like minded opinion who are then afforded the same freedom and start to express themselves likewise more vigourously as the mob mentality of "tough at a distance and tough in crowd takes hold". when others, usually a newbie, counter one of the mob and their opinion dissents from the majority it becomes less tolerated and the alliance speaking as one, through many mouths, under the guise of sticking up for each other, gradually sidetrack any issue into a personal one and launch an attack on many fronts. using the ad hominem strategy, the troll disguise, teh grammar confusting technique, and the highly favourable, 'appealing to the powers on high' ego stroke, they gradually wear down the dissenter into leaving or silence as it becomes too draining in both time and energy to defend their position. alternately the dissenter gets smote from on high using the ultimate, divine intervention, actively moderated hand of god weilding ban stick.
on the rare occassion that with blinding logic and factual data the dissenter does manage a victory of sorts, your prize is usually the deafening stone wall of silence. you can either beat your head against it in the hopes the wall will break or as with the wailing wall, put a note in the cracks and pray for forgiveness.
ultimately though what you end up with in most online forums is a community of like minds and a consensus of opinion that is both stagnant and repulsive in its virtual backslapping camaraderie.
so russell. you've been playing virtual real life communities on line and repping your self for a while. I'd love to hear your opinion on this side of media 2.0. Yeah we all know about the web media watching the mainstream watching the world but who watches the 2.0 watchers ?
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Since I'm not into piercings, the Cylons are certainly cooler to me than the Borg. They even know Yeats - did you catch the Hybrid's all-too-appropriate inversion of "The Second Coming"?
Yup -- and when someone pays my bloody invoice (not Russell) I'll be buying The Plan on BluRay. (Better Half went out last Saturday and treated himself to a BluRay-home theatre combo as a retirement/early Christmas present. At least he's not spending the kitty on whores and blow.) Interesting effort, though I suspect it's going to be utterly impenetrable to anyone who isn't already an obsessive BSG fanboy/geek girl.
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so what did i win ? you shouldn't have deleted it and krackalite can stick his trolling insults and advice up his arse though i will accept his apology
Would that not be your problem right there? Show some grace, for goodness sake. You're not accepting an apology, you're just trying to get in the last insult.
You've spent a lot of words above complaining about what other people do and feeling sorry for yourself. Perhaps you could consider what you're doing yourself.
and is it too much to ask russell, that you also be consistent ?
What I'd like to ask is that I don't have to wade in on a pointless dispute like this. Just treat others here as people.
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i know what i'm doing and am going to take a break because i cant treat others here as people if i cant look into their eye as they say stupid shit. i dont know them as people, i dont want to know them, and its easier to just deal with opinions at face value without getting personal.
the thing is, you dont have to wade in. you choose to and did what you said you wouldn't. what does that say about you? the other thing i've noticed about on line disputes is if the mods would just let it ride, things tend to even themselves out in the long run and people, as has been noted tend to filter out the bullshit anyway.
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I've noticed new people joining discussions here without any fuss easily outnumber those who for some reason expect that starting with an insult or claiming to not really believe what they're saying are sensible conversational tactics in any place.
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if the mods would just let it ride, things tend to even themselves out in the long run
The infamous copywrong thread begs to differ. If bad behaviour is left uncorrected, things "even themselves out" by good people leaving the conversation because they get sick of the style. Disagreements about content seldom cause any problems. Pigwrestling does.
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the other thing i've noticed about on line disputes is if the mods would just let it ride, things tend to even themselves out in the long run and people, as has been noted tend to filter out the bullshit anyway.
What utter crap. But y'know, that's just my professional opinion. Can't see my face, so I'm obviously not a person.
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I've noticed new people joining discussions here without any fuss
as long as they agree with the mob other wise they dont stick around long. FFS just look what happened to conseismal, he calls bullshit on a mob member and gets shat on. i call bullshit i get shat on. ben puts forward something contrary to the mob opinion he gets shat on. clive gives his take on things and gets shat on.
look at the anti trotter stuff. what would happen if a lone dissenter/ trotter supporter or even trotter turned up himself ? he'd get shat on. cactus kate puts forward something contrary she gets shat on. brickley puts something out ther and even russell shits on him. not excactly a good example to follow but hey if thats the tune the pipers playing then lets all be lemmings.
the expectation here and most forums is that we are all supposed to have the same opinion and write it in the same manner. oh and not slag off any *real people* who participate but anyone outside, like trotter is fair game. how very fucking boring and cowardly!
and if you're going to be rude try to be funny about it ? what sort of advice is that ? Why ? cos then you'll appeal to the mob and be accepted by the good people..oh fuck off!!!
If bad behaviour is left uncorrected, things "even themselves out" by...
by whatever means and there are many but in the long run they even out and who's to call "bad behaviour"...mob rule/good people ?
What utter crap. But y'know, that's just my professional opinion. Can't see my face, so I'm obviously not a person.
oh you're probably a person but it is gettin harder to tell bots apart and even more so in the future. so by all means call utter crap where and how you see it, just prove it with something carrying a little more weight than, you're a professional mod or juvenile distractions and even then dont expect everyone to agree.
thats the thing with most forums sooner or later people only say shit others know they will agree with for *fear* of getting shat on. is that because virtual life is reflecting real life and how people really are ?
do you even know who you are ?
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Well, PAS is three years old now. I suppose it's about time for The Influx of Whiny Martyrs.
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who's to call "bad behaviour"
Thankfully most can see the difference between rude trolling and not "agreeing with the mob". Genuine differences of opinion welcome, shit stirring not.
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I come here for informed opinion and an enlightened take on the world. You know what you will get from PA but, nevertheless, you can encounter surprising things. I have changed my opinion on matters a number of times, in wake of a PA discussion. But if you arrive intent on casting around shit, you are going to get shate on. There are other places--and other blogs--where you can do that.
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You know what you will get from PA ...
yeah, sad eh ?...that after 3 years a pecking order becomes established and boring predictablity sets in.
people repping themselves so much that you can almost guarantee you know what and how they are going to say things before they do.
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people repping themselves so much that you can almost guarantee you know what and how they are going to say things before they do.
I believe that's generally known as 'having a recognisable personality' and/or 'not being disingenuous for the sake of it'.
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God i hope people never get to know me that well. i like people with an air of mystery:)
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