Hard News: It's not OK to just make stuff up
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Yeah, they did a bunch featuring guys being the designated driver (the one with the drunk guy sitting in the back of the car making beeping noises as they back out of the driveway cracks me up), taking taxis, giving the guy in the bathtub a pillow, all that stuff. The 'you're a bloody legend' ones. The other 'it's not okay' ads also feature guys talking about doing the right thing, working to control their own violence, or intervening when their mates got out of hand. I have enormous respect for the sheer guts that must have taken for those men.
Thanks Emma, yeah I remember that one with the guy in the back of the car now you mention it, I guess that's pretty positive unless you see yourself as the mate. That creative had his nuts screwed on right, but still fel there's a plethora of 'how not to drink' and a lack of 'how to drink' ads.
And oddly, when walking home from the pool yesterday I was passed by a bus with an AIDS campaign on the side. It featured a middle-aged woman and a slogan something like 'look beyond the stereotype'. Just sayin'.
Still concerned that no one has really discussed the situation Kyle found him in on the ferry, I feel that having good ways to deal with other's violence or discussing methods of safe intervention or protection, coud be far more useful in stemming these problems on the whole.
Should he have called the cops? the captain? Isaac Wshington?
Didn't exactly sound like the Love Boat. -
Really? When did these pop up? At best, it should be phrased as 'the alleged ill effects..' (I do know a thing or two about the research literature, and the weaknesses of US-sourced 'effects' research)
i think some of the stuff steven is referring to might be from the Dunedin longitudinal study...
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I feel that having good ways to deal with other's violence or discussing methods of safe intervention or protection, coud be far more useful in stemming these problems on the whole.
Should he have called the cops? the captain? Isaac Wshington?
Didn't exactly sound like the Love Boat.That's certainly a discussion I'd be interested in.
What would Gopher do?
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Mark, I think everyone is still finding their way on how to deal with violence when they see it in front of them. Throwing yourself in between is difficult for a reason: Usually neither side wants you to do it, and it's dangerous. A child getting smacked is not likely to welcome some strange adult accosting their parent, even when the accosting is to stop the smacking. More likely they will be highly upset and frightened by that. Furthermore, the smacking is usually to counter some anti-social behavior the child is exhibiting, so there are a lot of conflicting emotions amongst the bystanders.
When adults are fighting it's even worse because you could be attacked yourself, by either side.
So people do what they have always done, they stare, and glare, and hang around, and sometimes they say something, or call the police, and even more rarely, they step in. There are no easy answers because it's situational. Also, these things tend to happen so fast that, as Kyle said, the opportunity passes.
I wouldn't want to offer Kyle advice here for much the same reason he didn't say anything. I don't know the whole situation, and I doubt he would want the advice, which could be considered a criticism. Unless he genuinely asks for it.
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That's certainly a discussion I'd be interested in.
In relation to this incident we were in a crowd going down stairways and it happened behind us, so we would have had to fight through people to get back to it. And I didn't see it, but my girlfriend did, so I'm sure it happened, but it really developed into a conversation between the two of us "he hit her?", "yes, he slapped her on the face", "he slapped her on the face?", "yes, what should we do?", not between us and him.
I've come to the conclusion (since) that it's probably something you need to decide beforehand. In the heat of the moment, with lots of other people around, when you're unsure of yourself, it's too easy to not do anything, which I think isn't what I want of myself.
If I had a rule for myself, that I would always say something if a saw an adult smacking a child, then I would be more likely to do it when it happened. If my line was "Excuse me, did you just smack that child?" with a followup of "You know you can't do that?" then I would be intervening but not too much of the "telling other people what they can and can't do".
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Kyle, it's pretty hard to plan. What will be your response if they say "No, I didn't smack them"? Or "Pull ya fucken head in, dick, or you'll get one next"? Of course we'll both be able to think of something sensible that should be said, now, with plenty of time to think about it. But at the time, I doubt many people will have a well-formed strategy, and an angry confrontation is very probable.
Not saying that we shouldn't have a plan. We should. It's just a big step forward from the common state of affairs now, in which most people mind their own business. It's quite a huge culture shift.
In general I agree with your plan. The level of confrontation is something it's hard to find a balance for. If you leave a way for the person to save face and avoid confrontation, have you achieved anything? I think so, you've at least made them aware that some people will say something now. But some kinds of people will not learn a damned thing from that, seeing it as basically getting away with it. Others will seek to escalate the confrontation with you directly, in outrage at your 'cheek'. What then? How much time do you want to spend on it? Are you prepared to potentially get hurt and/or arrested yourself, if the fighting turns to assault via threats of violence. Would you press charges? What if you have your own children there? These are all contingencies that could arise. Small wonder that most people just glare, then move on.
Having said all that, I think those contingencies are outside chances, and that mostly a remonstration would turn into a few sharp words and a parting of ways, possibly followed by a few pats on the back from some other slightly less courageous bystanders. Which would help to prevent another future smack for that child in public, and the children of any people who happened to witness the incident. It would be a good thing to do.
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Thanks guys, out of interest, were you guys in support of the government making smacking illegal?
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I wouldn't imagine it would be useful in many instances to have the conversation continue beyond those two lines. Simply to bring attention to what they've done and let them know that people don't approve, and are willing to say something.
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Now Kyle, I don't really want to drag you over coals for this, because I'm certain it happens everyday, but I did find it very interesting in light of your parents' respective professions. What witnessed crimes would you ordinarily not hesitate reporting to the police? What kind of message is being sent to the child when a whole swag of people are standing around watching crimes being commited?
Also just talking to a colleague (whilst having my midday cigarette inside), he reminded me of a couple of ads from a while back, one with three guys at a urinal one old coot saying
"I could've bought a Porsche for the money i've spent on grog over the years"
then some other guy with a similar sentiment adds his two cents.
Finally the more sober of the three says something about buying a new pair of boots. (following the implication of wayward slash)
Funny stuff.Another was a drinking ad with a Tina Cross along the lines of 'you should be making love to me and not that bottle', Tune was subsequently altered due to the controversial nature of the song....
Making love bad
child getting it's head whacked against a bookshelf good. -
If I had a rule for myself, that I would always say something if a saw an adult smacking a child, then I would be more likely to do it when it happened.
Kyle, if one of my children smacked one of their children when they deserved it in public I doubt if you would say anything. If you did you think twice before you meddled again. They would unlikely do anythink physical but they would let you know verbally to mind your own bloody business. I would bet that russel would have enough sense to mind his own business.
Please note I am talking about a smack and not abuse.
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"And oddly, when walking home from the pool yesterday I was passed by a bus with an AIDS campaign on the side. It featured a middle-aged woman and a slogan something like 'look beyond the stereotype'. Just sayin'."
Emma, think about it. How is a middle aged women gonming to be infected with HIV?
The most likely way is the she will have sex with a bi sexual.
The second most likely way is that she has sex with someone from a high risk country.
If the social parasites who work for the AIDS Foundation cared about reducing the incidence of HIV they would recommend that homosexuals not to have promiscuous and often anonymous sex.
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If the social parasites who work for the AIDS Foundation cared about reducing the incidence of HIV they would recommend that homosexuals not to have promiscuous and often anonymous sex.
ROFLMFAO
Chuck honey, the ad featured the word 'needle'.
Doubtless her nurse was one of those dirty filthy bisexuals.
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Despite all the scare mongering in the eighties,
it's f*cking hard to get AIDS. -
ROFLMFAO
Hadn't seen one of those for a while.
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Hadn't seen one of those for a while.
This is not normally a venue where I need my ROFLcopter, or my Lollercoaster.
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Some day, waay in the future, some dedicated scholar is going to compile a kind of dictionary, demonstrating the rise & slither sideways & oblivion of early www geekish...
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:
If the social parasites who work for the AIDS Foundation cared about reducing the incidence of HIV they would recommend that homosexuals not to have promiscuous and often anonymous sex.
The kind of garbled English produced by one-handed typing.
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Let's not worry unduly about Chuck. He has enough on his hands navigating a corrupt and scary world from what he tells us.
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As long as he insists that those with whom he fornicates remove their balaclavas he'll be fine.
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When there is pararity of men and women in boardrooms, parliament, and pay, when women can stand up and do a job without being called a bitch or a lesbian, when women can work in offices without being subjected to, and having to tolerate, crude and heavy-handed flirtation verging on harrasment, then and only then will I start taking any notice of any whining limpdick who uses this phrase or varients thereof.
Super classy, Rich -- perhaps I get a one-trip ticket on calling the annoying woman of my choice a whinging limp-clit? Oh, and pretty shitty logic there as well -- perhaps we can agree that workplace harassment or intimidation isn't acceptable regardless of the gender, ethnicity or what-fraking-ever of the perpetrator.
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<quote>Despite all the scare mongering in the eighties,
it's f*cking hard to get AIDS<quote>Fucking hard, and in all the wrong places? Ho ho. I'm gonming to regret this...
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hey, that as my joke for 4 hours and 28 mnutes. God damn recyclers.
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Super classy, Rich
Wait. Rich, in fine form, tells a super-annoying MRA to bugger off, and you're attacking *him*?
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"Chuck honey, the ad featured the word 'needle'.
Doubtless her nurse was one of those dirty filthy bisexuals."Emma, check out the following.
http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/pagesmh/2871/$File/issue-62-aids-nz-nov08.pdf
You will note that since 2000 only one female has been infected with HIV. I doubt if she would be the average middle aged woman. That is one person out of over 1,400.
The AIDS Foundation deliberately tries to hide the fact that AIDS is predominantly a homosexual disease in New Zealand. The next group overrepresented in HIV statistics is immigrants the previous Labour government was happy to let in without screening for HIV.
The most likely way a middle aged woman would be infected would be by a closet bisexual partner often her husband. I think classing a closet bisexual who would put his wife at risk as dirty and filthy would be quite appropriate.
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Wait. Rich, in fine form, tells a super-annoying MRA to bugger off, and you're attacking *him*?
No -- but if you're calling someone a sexist ignoramus, perhaps "softcock" is tonally a wee bit off. Oh, and kids don't use socio-historical disparity as a defence for being a noxious fucktard in the workplace.
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