Hard News: Fabrication and humanity
102 Responses
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One can feel a lot of sympathy for Panah but his dishonsty has to be compared with all those others who are just as, or even more, desperate who play by the rules.
isn't that the same meme floated about the people on the tampa?
the ones who couldn't get access to the "queues" because their country was, you know, fcked?
i.e. "we'd love to help afghanis, but we've received no applications for refugee status through official channels"
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che, if your want to imagine people you disagree with in the worst possible light feel free, but it's not really a rational argument.
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that wasn't an emotive or personal attack, just pointing out that that you can't claim absolute priority for people who "play by the rules".
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WH,
<quote>Speaking only for myself, I would rather give $10 to helping a third world country develop (you know, to people who can't afford air fares) than give $1 to a refugee. That's at least in part because I don't respect the decision making processes of our refugee tribunals.<quote>
Perhaps that is a cheap shot. I would have to acknowledge that the refugee system and foreign aid schemes are intended to work in parallel.
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Sydney lock down
Not sure if I've said this one before, but anyway.
Prez Clinton stayed in a hotel in the Square in Christchurch (Old Social Welfare Building) and right next door my office had expanded into the 4th or 5th floor of the BNZ Building. It had an access way onto a balcony able from the hall.
Four guys went onto the balcony and started to razz the security on the ground & the roof. The security were tooled up and you could guess by the bulky jackets and you just knew there were snipers on the roof. But you can't shoot a guy for giving the fingers and yelling abuse.
I was inside the floor to ceilling glass window pissing myself with laughter.
Then the boyz did a runner around the building and off that roofy thing over the foot path, off to freedom. We were stormed by the SIS who wanted to know who those guys were and how to get onto that balcony. They were pointed in the right direction and that was that, you would have thought.
A good half an hour later there was a bloke in a suit knocking on our window. The SIS had left one behind and the door didn't have a handle to open from the outside. Gold pure gold.
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I have very little respect for Cunliffe's actions in outing the details of this guy's case. In my lay-person's reading, it's a breach of the immigration act:
(1) Subject to this section, confidentiality as to the identity of the claimant or other person whose status is being considered under this Part, and as to the particulars of their case, must at all times, both during and subsequent to the determination of the claim or other matter, be maintained by refugee status officers, the Authority, other persons involved in the administration of this Act, and persons to whom particulars are disclosed under subsection (3)(a) or (b).
Clearly the guy's supporters have got the wrong end of the stick a bit, but this isn't a battle to be fought in the arena of public opinion either way.
The guys just spent 53 days starving himself trying to stay in NZ. What a gutless act in response to breach his right to privacy by the Minister by making vague pointings at supposedly confidential case studies. How low can you get?
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Speaking only for myself, I would rather give $10 to helping a third world country develop (you know, to people who can't afford air fares) than give $1 to a refugee.
Generally I agree with you; all other things being equal, it is better to help people build their own futures. But it is rather difficult to help people who live under repressive regimes (not to mention morally questionable if it aids the survival of those regimes), and the best thing we can do on that front is help pick up the pieces for those who manage to escape.
Nothing lasts forever, and when governments change and situations stablise, refugees can go home. But sometimes that takes so long that they have become valued members of our community in the meantime, with jobs, families, and children. And under those circumstances, its IMHO better to let people stay if they want to than uproot them again
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one of my greatest memories of melbourne was sitting in a restaurant providing the tune to po karekare ana while three east timorese sang a timorese version of the tune.
these guys came over as refugees, got an education to post-grad, and were planning on heading back there once things settled down.
meanwhile they brightened up the experiences of ordinary kiwis like myself. unforgettable.
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A good half an hour later there was a bloke in a suit knocking on our window. The SIS had left one behind and the door didn't have a handle to open from the outside. Gold pure gold.
So, did you leave them out there to freeze for a while? Smert' shpionam, and all that.
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word about the internet is that things in Iran might be changing sometime soon.
Gee, I hope they have enough rose petals and ballot boxes.
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The Australian police's reason for the court case: they are planning to block the road, and therefore expect a "full-scale riot".
We'll have to wait till 16:00 AU time (18:00 NZST) to see if the scaremongering little pricks get away with it, or if the judge makes the obvious response of "so don't block the road, you dumbarses".
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I have very little respect for Cunliffe's actions in outing the details of this guy's case.
Didn't TVNZ's Close Up drive this one, by telling Cunliffe "if we can get Panah to waive his right to privacy, will you then release this 'secret' information?". It's not really fair for Panah to say "I want entry" but then claim right-to-privacy when the Govt wants to explain why they want to deny him entry.
I would rather give $10 to helping a third world country develop ... than give $1 to a refugee
Ah, yes Teach a man to fish.... The flip side of this is Howard giving Nauru $Xmillion to take the Tampa refugees (and we took some for free!! - damn those Aussies know how to f#ck us at every turn!!)
the best thing we can do on that front is help pick up the pieces for those who manage to escape
Yes, but by allowing ppl to 'jump the queue' you encourage others to do the same. Why follow the process if you see others getting refugee status by ripping up their passports and finding Jesus?
Prez Clinton stayed in a hotel in the Square in Christchurch
Hmmm, I could tell a similar story in Auckland but that might out me. Suffice to say I was being a smarty pants on a cordless phone, telling someone how I was surprised there were no SWAT/sniper teams on the roof of Clinton's hotel, and it would be easy to take out Clinton from where I was standing. Just as I finished the call I leaned further over the balcony I was standing on (dangerously so) and saw at least two dozen SWAT/sniper guys in full on black armageddon uniforms, together with innnumerable radio/satelite eqipment. They were on the roof alright, hidden from general view. Two minutes later there was a knock on the door of my hotel room with an SIS guy asking me if everything was okay. He was dressed to look like Hotel staff, but [duh] his blazer was completely different to the actual Hotel I was in!
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Clearly the guy's supporters have got the wrong end of the stick a bit, but this isn't a battle to be fought in the arena of public opinion either way.
I think the frustration for people on the government side is always that one side can go to the court of public opinion and merrily say what they want, while ministers and officials can't discuss the details of a case at all.
I think that "getting the wrong end of the stick" is a very kind way of putting it. I'm sure they are well-motivated and good people, but I'm also sure that Panah's spokespeople knew that basically every piece of evidence he presented in two separate appeals was found to be a crock, and the most they'll cop to are "relatively minor and explainable discrepancies".
I remember Tze Ming ticking me off when I once mused that Zaoui seemed like such a good chap I'd just have him anyway; pointing out out that refugee status can't be a popularity contest.
I consider myself a liberal on asylum and refugee policy, but this guy just doesn't seem like the right case to me.
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I consider myself a liberal on asylum and refugee policy, but this guy just doesn't seem like the right case to me.
The problem with being serious about human rights is that you find yourself having to stick up for scoundrels all the time. Panah's a scoundrel. But he is also IMHO at serious risk of persecution if deported, and that is what matters.
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Yes, but by allowing ppl to 'jump the queue' you encourage others to do the same. Why follow the process if you see others getting refugee status by ripping up their passports and finding Jesus?
As Che has pointed out, not everybody can even get in the queue. More importantly, we cannot turn a blind eye to human suffering for procedural reasons. That sort of thinking leads to humanitarian catastrophe.
(Oh, and BTW, are all those Zimbabwean farmers "que jumpers"? or do you get a free pass if you're white?)
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What's the point of "snipers on the roof" anyway? To take up all the good spots?
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I/S
Yeah the boss let him in & we all had a good giggle & story for the pub.Our immigration policy is racist. Ozzys & Poms can come with pretty much gay abandon. I'm all for open immigration, if they want to come let them.
Mr Cherry, a Jewish Truck Driver who won millions at Atlantic City wanted to immigrate. He used to ride his bike into retail outlets (which really pissed me off) & tried to organise a condom swap as part of his community mindedness. Easter was a particularly bad time to serve him. Harmless enough and he did do good work for the small Jewish community in Christchurch but an utter peanut butter nutter. He got sent packing back to the states as well.
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What's the point of "snipers on the roof" anyway? To take up all the good spots?
I would presume they're there to shoot the Lee Harvey Oswalds of this world. But I can't recall any actual incidence of actual snipering (by the authorities) tho'. I guess it's all about looking tough. Like those kick-ass Presidential Motorcades:
White House reporter Connie Lawn is trying to get official motorcades to slim down and slow down. -
The problem with being serious about human rights is that you find yourself having to stick up for scoundrels all the time. Panah's a scoundrel.
Gee, I don't know if I'd want to say that, and the rejection of the sincerity of his conversion is the part of the RSAA decisions I'm least comfortable with (having heard from quite a number of other Iranians professing conversion on their way through South Korea, I guess they're a bit sceptical these days).
It's more that the evidence he presented to back up a claim that he was at risk of persecution was fabricated. There are 300,000 Christians in Iran, and they have dedicated Parliamentary representation. Apostasy prosecutions are rare, and usually political.
Panah could presumably get himself in trouble if he acted as an evangelist, but I'm still not sure if that's a strong enough reason to waive the tribunal process and grant him asylum. I'd be more inclined that way if he was a Ba'hai. Perhaps because they haven't been around for 2000 years, they seem to really cop it in the Middle East.
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It's more that the evidence he presented to back up a claim that he was at risk of persecution was fabricated. There are 300,000 Christians in Iran, and they have dedicated Parliamentary representation. Apostasy prosecutions are rare, and usually political.
Fair point, and I'd point out that (to paraphrase Gilbert & Sullivan) the lot of women in Iran - and much of the rest of the world - often is not a happy one. At least, not if you're unfortunate enough to attract the attention of the wrong morals cop, or poor, or happen to be surrounded by a culture where you're little better than a beast of burden/sex toy. I don't think any PA reader would say that doesn't suck and blow; whether (as Russell says) that would be grounds to waive the tribunal process and grant asylum is a wee bit more complex. (And believe you me, feeling sympathy for David Cunliffe is neither familiar nor comfortable.)
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Without knowing much about this specific case its clear immigration is an incredibly tough issue to draw a clear line through. I'm extremely mindful, as Che pointed out, how Howard was able to manipulate perceived 'abuse' of the immigration 'process' during the Tampa to influence public opinion for electoral gain. But as others have pointed out, sometimes the official exit and entry 'process' just isn't a realistic option for those living elsewhere.
What I am mindful of is New Zealand's (at least relative to many other countries) proud record of immigration on human rights grounds.
Mum, a life-long teacher, cited as one of her proudest career moments when a few years ago she, now retired from teaching, had a knock on her door and opened it to find standing there one of the Somalian refugees she taught as a primary school-aged new immigrant years ago. He is now a doctor, and he was slowly but surely working his way through the people who had helped him start a new life here in New Zealand, personally thanking them. She was both chuffed and touched in equal measure.
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The right to protest has lost in Sydney. People can protest, but not anywhere where the targets of that protest might see or hear them.
I expect the protest will go ahead, with added banners of "screw the court". And the judge will deserve every bit of that.
Australia has taken a remarkably anti-democratic turn under Howard, and it frightens me.
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Australia has taken a remarkably anti-democratic turn under Howard, and it frightens me.
The progress reports from the hearing, with the judge describing the police case as "opaque", were clearly not a good pointer to the final decision.
The language of the police case, weirdly hysterical as it was, presumably persuaded the judge that he didn't want to have his name on any calamiry, no matter how unlikely.
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The language of the police case, weirdly hysterical as it was, presumably persuaded the judge that he didn't want to have his name on any calamity, no matter how unlikely.
OK, but if the unlikely happened - and I've never been on a protest where there weren't some over excitable nitwits who really needed to OD on chill pills - who would be blamed then? Somehow, I don't think the protest organisers would be waving their hands in the air if anyone ended up getting hurt.
Sure, I'm not very impressed with the NSW Police's case, but I don't think some of the more vocal protest groups have done themselves any favours either.
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The language of the police case, weirdly hysterical as it was, presumably persuaded the judge that he didn't want to have his name on any calamiry, no matter how unlikely.
Which is a type of authoritarian bullying which has become commonplace in the "war on terror", and is used particularly effectively by the Bush Administration. The latest book by an insider (discussed by Glenn Greenwald here talks about administration officials openly threatening people that if they stand on human or constitutional rights, "the blood of the hundred thousand people who die in the next attack will be on your hands." (original emphasis). That's not something many people are willing to stand up in the face of. But they have to, otherwise government gets everything it wants, with no checks and balances.
(And yes, I know the "one bomb away from victory" quote is scarier. The Bushies really are creepy thugs).
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