Hard News: Draped in their flag
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but then, howard should be voted out at the next election.
Well, yes, provided there's a viable alternative to vote for.
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...he'd never been to a country with as much visible mental illness as australia.
i laughed. a lot
Belly laughs? Or a kind of demented giggle?
Sorry, given the topic, and the fact you've lived there... thought I'd better clarify.
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rudd should do it.
it'll be a veritable clash of 5'5" titans.
and, belly laughs. but mind you, the guy worked in fitzroy, so it might not have been a representative sample. -
"Australia will kill you if it gets half a chance, its all poisonous this and salt croc that and boiling desert heat the other."
Hang on! I lived there for over a year, spending most of my time, as 90% of Aussies do, in urban areas. The only wildlife I met (if you don;'t count flies and roaches) was a Huntsman spider (harmless but impressive) a medium sized snake (allegedly deadly but asleep) and various possums and roos (not believed to be hostile).
According to that argument, the cold, ice and grizzlies should have turned the Canadians into raging xenophobic psychopaths by now.
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(if you don't count flies and roaches)????
Whoa!!! nobody, not even JH could count the flies in Aus. really!!!Russell I like you prediction that we will nedd to wash oiur hands a lot more in the elecronic future. I hope so but dried on towels not Flags please.
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when i lived in melbourne an english friend stated quite baldly he'd never been to a country with as much visible mental illness as australia.
There was a cartoon doing the rounds during the Sydney olympics. Below a drawing of a vapidly smiling mum, dad, kids and grandpa was the caption: "Take your medication. Our foreign visitors must suspect nothing."
Is your English friend a connoiseur of this sort of thing? He'd have a ball in Chch.
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Update from Fitzroy: My tram was pelted with paint cans this morning by a man with crazy eyes. On the way home this afternoon I bumped a gentleman who started singing a song (of his own composition I think) about how he "couldn't take any more of this shit" and then started humming the same tune when he forgot the words. This is just one days worth of crazies. There are a lot of crazy people in Fitzroy.
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oh, and andrew, me? "belly laugh", followed by slightly suspicious glance...
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As a New Zealander, I think that since seminal moments of 1984 we have not just caught up with but actually passed the average Australian in being comfortable in our sense of place, politically and geographically.
I'm not so sure about that. Living in Bali, and having done so for a while, the broad arrogance and bigotry I've witnessed from middle to low level Australians towards the Indonesians...who have a culture going back thousands of years, vastly more complex and developed than that of post 1788 (white) Australia, with a degree of day to day civility towards their fellow man that should make Australia (and NZ) weep..is appalling. Its pleasant to live in a country where there is very little violent crime.
Downer, too sweeps into Jakarta from time to time like some sort of self important Sahib as do a variety of lessor Federal functionaries, issuing demands and the like. Criticisms of this country flow from Canberra with regularity. Expat Australians I know here cringe with embarrassment every time Howard issues forth about this archipelago. There is a "who the hell does he think he's kidding attitude" and Indonesia's 250 million (including more practicing Christians than the whole population of Australia) tend to shrug it off. They know the pronouncements are largely irrelevant.
On the contrary I would suggest that Australia, under either Labor or the current lot have a sense of self importance beyond their real standing.
It might not be a PC thing to say, but often, from all quarters, you hear said here that there was an upside to the bombings: it scared off the Australian tourist. Tourism here is booming, almost at its highest levels ever, but noticeably the hole left by the refusal of Ockers to come, has been filled by Europeans, and that can't be bad.
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I don't think anyone would deny someone else having patriotic feelings towards their country and as we know the average Aussie is not short on patriotism. But I think the problem is the sentiment behind alot of the 'flag waving' thats going on in Australia at the moment. We have to remember that they are being run by a chauvanistic bigot who seems to honestly still believe in the highly outdated ideals of 'cultural asimilation'. This whole ideal Howard seems to be painfully gripping to that anyone who is white and is decended from white migrants who settled Australia with the assistance of the British army is more Aussie to the core than everyone else just doesn't make any sense and is massivly hypocritical. Alot of Australia's racial tension is now coming from the sheer frustration of Australia's new migrants and the inability of the white Australian Govt to acknowledge the facts. That Australia like all modern countries is a multicultural society. Instead of Howard poking his nose into other countries like Indonesia maybe he should be paying more attention to the quite obvious institutionalised rascism that exits within his own country.
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ironically, multicultural policies were adopted by the then conservative PM malcolm fraser to ensure better assimilation of minorities.
most multicultural policies involved programmes like ESL education for socially isolated and depressed migrant housewives. the underlying thought behind the policy being, 'white australia isn't acutally working, let's spend govt money to help them actually integrate and become australians'. a guy called mark lopez wrote a tome on it.
but as matt indicates, howard is more interested in using race as a weapon to galvanise the.... "less thoughtful" australian behind his party.
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Just to show the dog whistling on this issue (and the reactionary responses) aren't limited to Australians, here's a link to DPF's post and thread on the subject:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/01/idiotic_aussie_flag_ban.html(RB feel free to delete if it's not ok to post this!)
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i read that chain too. i wanted to say 'shocking', but then thought... no, not really.
also, looks like howard is positioning to remove multicultural policy once and for all, as he did with distinct aboriginal policy.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/integration-is-howards-aim/2007/01/23/1169518710208.html
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Just to show the dog whistling on this issue (and the reactionary responses) aren't limited to Australians, here's a link to DPF's post and thread on the subject:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/01/idiotic_aussie_flag_ban.html(RB feel free to delete if it's not ok to post this!)
Of course it is. In fact, I went and gave him a serve about it. You expect psycho bigots like Murray to go off, but DPF should know better.
Might I also say that I'm not entirely comfortable with sweeping statements about Australians in this thread. It's a pair of fine Australians who bring us our BDO in the first place, and many, many more who just love music and would like their music festival back. Not everybody's a boofhead.
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And a damn good serve that was too Mr Brown.
Some of my favourite Shortland St characters are Australian.
One of the things that I think is counter productive for NZers about Australian race relations policy is it allows us to be complacent about our own problems. We look at them and think well we're soooo much better than that, then sit back in the lazy-boy and watch some more cricket (have I mentioned that I hate cricket yet in this thread?).
Just because we have less work to do than them doesn't mean we have none to be done.
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Recently had some folks attend an IT conference in Sydney. Reports of abuse, racism and harassment by, admittedly, a minority of attendees were a shock. I guess nine years of polarised politics legitimatizes a lot of that shit.
I hope it stays out of the mainstream here and the likes of DPF have an obligation to keep it out. I am not confident that it will stay out having seen Franks, Coddington and even Brash cynically exploit peoples basic fears about other cultures and even the opposite sex. The fact is, they do know better, but they think is more to be gained by getting the 5 to 10% rump of voters that are attracted to this message.
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By the way, the economics of racism and misogyny are terrible. We were a medium sized sponsor of the conference and prboably had about the largest contingent of delegates from any one company. I will have a chat to the organisers but I will certainly think very carefully about future sponsorship, funding attendance and doing business in Sydney (which *is* a great city).
Australia might be able to afford overseas folks having second thoughts about doing business with them and spending money on them but New Zealand cannot.
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Serioulsy right, Redbaiter isn't for real? Like, it's a dude, who's actually left wing, just being a cock to wind people up?
Am I being naive? Or are there people out there like this? -
Am I being naive? Or are there people out there like this?
Loads of them. Redbaiter's relatively comedic. Try Murray, Whale Oil or Coyote for more genuinely chilling attitudes.
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Redbaiter is pretty funny, but a bit repetitive. I also think Whaleoil is pretty funny - claiming that someones problems are caused by repressed homosexuality is a trivial, infantile comment to make about a person you don't like, but in Whaleoils case it's almost certainly true.
But for pure comedic gold that keeps on giving you want Adolf over at Sir Humphreys.
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Actually, I seem to get on with Murray (OK, the odd call to arms is a bit worrying & should probably be taken with a handful of salt), Whaleoil has told me to fuck off from someone else's site for being welsh... but I find redbaiter far more offensive & moronic than the lot of 'em.
Is he real? I considered making him up once, or someone very like him (should you ever see comments from Darth Stupid...).
I dunno, you'd have to hope not. Or hope never to meet the guy in person.
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merc,
When I think of these people in person, I think of those two old codgers in The Muppets on the balcony...then I realize they are probably 19.
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The massive difference between the contents of this thread and the one at Kiwiblog is interesting. Same topic to begin with (although not the same pov), wildly diverging comments resulting.
Russell, I'm curious - have you had to do any moderating on PA System or have people generally behaved?
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Not one to put words into his mouth, but I can't recall ever seeing anyones stuff removed that is to say seeing it, then no longer being able to see it, of course I wouldn't be able to see it once removed because it's no longer there. See?
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But what I have seen is many people including myself prefacing some of their messages with, RB feel free to delete this if you disagree or such like and it never is.
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