Hard News: Democracy Night
773 Responses
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HenryB, in reply to
Describing MMP as the system the Germans put in place after Hitler and …
dun
dun
dun
They haven’t had a majority (stable) government since.I have listened to this t and don't here anything about `the Germans'. Am I looking in wrong place?
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I think they believe it makes their vote twice as powerful. Actually, it's like not voting at all.
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Greg Dawson, in reply to
@Ben. Why do people keep voting in that drongo Dunne? He is Mr Opportunist supreme.
I've talked to a fair few people in his electorate to try and figure that one out - common thread seems to be hatred of Chauvel. No-one has explained what he did to make them hate him so much though.
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Steve Parks, in reply to
I think Bart was referring to 3 News' Firstline programme.
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So I just heard Shane Jones on the radio describing the Greens as a "virus" and saying that they needed to get back people from the Greens and NZ First before trying to get back National voters... then describing the Greens as "mad"!
And this is the guy who was supposedly being so upfront about why they lost the election?
Unbelievable.
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HenryB, in reply to
I’ve talked to a fair few people in his electorate to try and figure that one out – common thread seems to be hatred of Chauvel.
Interesting, and a little unusual, that they would be willing to say that they hate him but not why. Or is it the case that they are reporting that he is hated?
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HenryB, in reply to
Unbelievable.
+1
The last thing Labour should be doing is bagging those. amongst others, it ought to be talking with and listening to. -
Christopher Nimmo, in reply to
Interesting, and a little unusual, that they would be willing to say that they hate him but not why. Or is it the case that they are reporting that he is hated?
Maybe they dislike how much mail he sends them?... he's the only one of the Ohariu MPs who sends anything out other than in election year.
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Islander, in reply to
Shane has an - um, interestingly diverse? reputation amongst Maori...which is just one of the reasons I think he was reluctant to be a contender for Labour leader-
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Greg Dawson, in reply to
Interesting, and a little unusual, that they would be willing to say that they hate him but not why. Or is it the case that they are reporting that he is hated?
Lots of "having dealt with him in business..." with the rest left out, one assumes due to not wanting to discuss their commercial interests. And more detail on hatred (wife just got back from visiting her parents in the electorate) - he ran a very negative campaign, so his endless letter box spam was all low brow slagging of Dunne.
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Sacha, in reply to
health care
health depends on more than that
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Islander, in reply to
know that - but without the health care system we still have, majority health among citizens will decline- so, what were you pointing out?
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Sacha, in reply to
That there was a recent and well-publicised local documentary about the significant link between housing and health. Not exactly controversial.
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Islander, in reply to
Yes. I've watched it. I am NOT convinced that "good" housing supercedes a good health care system, a good education system, or good jobs being available. I've known waay too many exceptions to that "good housing is the solution to all our problems" scenario.
That's it from me.
Kati. -
Bart Janssen, in reply to
On tv3 firstline
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
And this is the guy who was supposedly being so upfront about why they lost the election?
Unbelievable.
Nah, not really. Shane’s a real bloke’s bloke among the gaggling gays and politically correct front-bum unionists, least we forget. And he’s very comfortable in his role as the Labour Party’s resident brown-neck – you know, the guy who can smack-talk Meteria and the Maori Party without sounding like some racist arsehole.
Compare and contrast with Nanaia Mahuta – who might not have half the profile of Shane Jones, but strikes me as an enormously smart, capable woman who’s more interested in doing the job than counting her media hits. And according to my contacts in her electorate doesn’t act like some entitled Tainui princess who thinks she can coast on her whakapapa and a red rosette. Don’t think it would be a bad thing if she won the deputy leadership vote.
@Ben. Why do people keep voting in that drongo Dunne? He is Mr Opportunist supreme.
And he may actually be a very good local MP. Next door, I don’t understand how a total douchebag like Mallard can hold onto an electorate, but friends in Hutt South tell that he seems to take a wee fist-full of beta blockers and happy pills before doing his constituency work. Good on him for that, at least.
Sometimes we can get so caught up in the “big picture’ and gaming the polls etc., we forget that old school campaigning 101 still matters. So does the unglamorous scut work of incumbents just having their boots on the ground and being engaged with local issues. I don't remember the figure off the top of my head, but I'd suggest quite a few people grasp they can reward a good local MP without having to accept their party as a package deal. (In Hutt South, Mallard's electorate vote was around 3,900 higher than Labour's party vote. He even slightly expanded his majority.)
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
I’ve known waay too many exceptions to that “good housing is the solution to all our problems” scenario.
Yes, and I've seen many ideas that are housing and are not a "norm" but are perfectly acceptable.Good ventilation on t'other hand is important Without our health system I'd be dead and it does bring home the appreciation of it being there. Education is up there as well for me as this alone can solve many house and health issues. Jus' sayin'
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
I take Islander's point - good housing isn't a magic bullet. There's not a lot of those outside fairy tales. But if you're sending a child with asthma home to a poorly ventilated mould farm that only sees sunlight two days a year, then you better have the best god-damn paediatric health system on earth. The poor tyke is going to be spending a hell of a lot of time in it, after all.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
I am NOT convinced that “good” housing supercedes a good health care system
I tend to agree with you Islander that health is more important than housing.
The point I'd make is that sometimes the best solution for health is better and more housing. For the south Auckland DHB, the numbers showed that the biggest increase in the health of the people in the community came from the DHB building more (better) houses than from hiring more doctors.
It's a nice example of knowing the right thing to do only after you examine the problem completely. It wasn't an obvious solution, that would have been buying equipment, hiring doctors and building more hospitals. But there is no doubt that the best way to improve health in that community was to build houses.
There were other parts to the problem such as working with the communities so they understood the issues with having too many humans in one house. And also working out the cultural parts to the issue "no we're not trying to break up the families".
However the risk with that kind of analysis and approach is that the more steps removed you are from the direct solution (more doctors) the more assumptions you include. For housing the assumption was that with more houses available the families would spread out rather than simply gathering more families closer. Hence the education part of the concept "this is why we want more houses for you to live in...".
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Christopher Dempsey, in reply to
So are we any closer to moving away from my meme Taxes pay for Civilisation , to something a little clearer?
Good health, good homes, good jobs.?
Thinking of Dionysus, perhaps Good life, good times, good memories?
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Despite the side-discussion between myself and Graeme, I'm pretty happy with Taxes pay for Civilisation.
Possibly with some minor or multiple tweaking on the theme
Taxes pay for your [insert desirable thing here]
Taxes pay for this (picture of hospital)
Taxes pay for her (picture of doctor)
Taxes pay for your clean beaches
Although care would have to be taken. Roads and prisons are possibly not what I'd want at the forefront of voters minds. And it's an easily hijacked meme, too: taxes pay for welfare-bludging single mothers.
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Lucy Stewart, in reply to
And it's an easily hijacked meme, too: taxes pay for welfare-bludging single mothers.
It strikes me that what Labour really needs is a slogan that brings out empathy in people, that gets to the idea that we provide social services and a welfare system and all the rest of it because at the end of the day that could be any of us; that when life is uncertain and things can go wrong, everyone is served by having a safety net even if they're not the ones who fall into it, because they could. And because we all do better when someone else is lifted out of poverty. Helping other people enriches us, as a society.
No idea how to put that into three or four snappy words, though.
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It’s false electoral maths too. Because the Maori Party might switch sides if a viable coalition could be formed. Peter Dunne can always be relied upon to switch sides. That’s why it’s such a rush for the Nats to get these guys their pork.
A viable coalition from Mana, Greens, Labour, NZ First, and Maori Party? You're kidding right?
John Key knows he can form the coalition he's working on at the moment because it's the same coalition he had for three years, and they've all met with him and signed up already. There's no way NZ First and Maori Party are going to coalition with Mana and the Greens.
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Carol Stewart, in reply to
He is Mr Opportunist supreme.
I think of him as the Vicar of Bray, Geoff.
And this is law, I will maintain
Unto my Dying Day, Sir.
That whatsoever King may reign,
I will be the Vicar of Bray, Sir! -
Carol Stewart, in reply to
Giovanni notes a 1957 Labour poster that says Everyone - yes, everyone - will be better off under Labour.
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