Hard News: Brown bigots etc.
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Hmmmm, just because you download and have a play with Neo Office and find that it 'works just fine', it's a bit of a leap to then pronounce it completely suitable for the enterprise.
Here's 3 things to ponder about Microsoft.
1. Version Control
You can hiss and whinge as much as you like but they do it better than anybody outside of IBM. Considering the user base and the breadth of applications it is superb, especially over the last 4-5 years since Windows Software Update Services (WSUS) was implemented.2. Excel Spreadsheet
Still the key financial mgt application at most med-large enterprises. Yes, we've known about BI, data warehousing, EIS, business analysis reporting and dashboarding for a long long time. Yet it's mainly still done in this application. Ask any accounting of finance manager in a large corporate. Trying to convert these, usually, large, complex and hugely important documents out of MS Office and into Open Office is not something I would like to contemplate.3. Home users
Yep, the people still rule, thankfully. And as long as they're using Windows and Office at home, we'll still be using it in the work place. When PC's start offering multiple OS options *and* the majority of punters start opting for Ubuntu and Open Office over MS alternatives, then you'll see change at work. Until then, no show.We use a mix of Linux and Windows here at work. I use Ubuntu at home. I consider myself fairly techno agnostic. But Open Source is miles away from being the desktop environment of choice for ordinary users in the workplace.
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I think it's a bit bloody rich of the Herald, of all papers, to be pointing out the spelling mistakes of others. There's usually at least a couple of total shockers to be found daily within it's pages.
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i note one of the articles related to the hindu conference is headed "muslim anger over prime minister's hinud meeting". just reading that made me furious. the writers obviously haven't figured out that sapna isn't a muslim - in fact i believe she identifies herself as hindu. there has been no outrage that i have heard of from the muslim population. i did respond on AEN regarding my concerns if the issues sapna's raised were correct, but it was hardly outrage. i'm not aware of any other muslims making any public comments about this issue at all. certainly haven't heard any muslim question whether the PM should have opened the conference or not. not sure what this "religious intelligence" outfit is, but for them to treat sapna's comments as representative of the views of the muslim community and to create the impression that whole muslim community is up in arms about the conference is more than ignorance, it is inflammatory.
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Danyl, I kind of agree. I compile my software for Linux, and many customers use that as well as our more popular Netware version, but I have to say I'd rather use Windows than SUSE for personal productivity. Server stuff, sure.
Hence my point that it's a massive task. But if you're going to blow all that cash just on Microsoft licenses, it's probably a task that could be afforded.
A midway point surely could be using OpenOffice and Firefox for Windows in schools. It's not that much of a culture shock. Windows as a workstation OS is still a good call for the meantime. Or Macs. They're cuter.
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"If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me." - as an American politician once said (or probably didn't, but a good line sticks).
There's an inconclusive discussion on that topic on the Snopes board.
It did make for a good Muttonbirds song though.
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I think it's a bit bloody rich of the Herald, of all papers, to be pointing out the spelling mistakes of others. There's usually at least a couple of total shockers to be found daily within it's pages.
But they are fans of open-source proof reading, and you have to doubt it's copy has ever been sullied by a MicroSatan spell-checker. :)
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The anthem was written in the 1870s when one could state that we were a Christian nation because the vast majority of us would have been. In fact I suspect one would have had to profess to a Christian faith to be admitted into normal society. I don't think anyone denies that the state of New Zealand was formed by people who were Christian, and probably even went to church, not just ticked the box in the census.
At some point in time we are no longer bound by the traditions of our forefathers, even in they felt strongly about said traditions.
Oh and re OpenOffice, just so long as you can explain and people will understand the differences between a .doc and a .odt file I'm sure it will be fine. I've just transferred my parents from Office to OpenOffice and they are coping fine (well, except for a weird printer issue)
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Yep, the people still rule, thankfully. And as long as they're using Windows and Office at home, we'll still be using it in the work place.
Yes, although one wonders how many people would be using Office at home if they couldn't nick copies.
Brian never seems to regard Judeo-Christian as being sufficiently in-the-tent. Jews too, it would seem, are "defiling our soil".
Yes, our traditional values of electing Jewish premiers seem to have passed him by. Fisher and Paykel's factories have kept a few Kiwis in jobs, too.
And big gay Dalvainius Prime did more for modern Maori culture Tamaki or the Harawira mob, I would submit; shame on so-called Maori rights campaigners for shitting on Maori who are insufficiently Christian or heterosexual.
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Or Macs. They're cuter.
Hmmm, so running 1000-2000 Mac clients in the enterprise will be cheaper than a MS environment?
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A midway point surely could be using OpenOffice and Firefox for Windows in schools. It's not that much of a culture shock. Windows as a workstation OS is still a good call for the meantime. Or Macs. They're cuter.
But you have to keep buying new ones, because the new ones are cuter than the old ones.
But yeah, NeoOffice looks pretty enough to be on a Mac, and it's simpler, if anything, than MS Office. And as I pointed out, it is in some cases more compatible with Microsoft applications than Microsoft applications are.
And it doesn't cost us taxpayers tens of millions of dollars in licence fees a year.
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Peter, some good points but...
"Considering the user base and the breadth of applications it is superb, especially over the last 4-5 years since Windows Software Update Services (WSUS) was implemented."
I deliberately switched off automatic updating because I can't take the downtime it caused. I'd rather pick when Microsoft can destabilize my system and screw all my non-Microsoft software up. I'd do without it altogether except that they always claim there's a critical security hole to be fixed, and I'd like some comeback if I ever get exploited through one (cripes that sounds rude).
Excel. Yes there is a massive conversion nightmare there. Especially custom made applications in VBA. Microsoft have cunningly locked a lot of corporations in there. But we are talking about schools.
Linux desktop? Even I don't, and I'm *supposed* to. Linux server? Best choice by far. Not all open source and/or freeware is for Linux, either.
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"Hmmm, so running 1000-2000 Mac clients in the enterprise will be cheaper than a MS environment?"
Wouldn't know. Was talking about schools anyway. Haven't used a Mac since I left university. But they were great there....
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The anthem was written in the 1870s when one could state that we were a Christian nation because the vast majority of us would have been. In fact I suspect one would have had to profess to a Christian faith to be admitted into normal society.
Hum... I think that's a whole other can of worms being opened. Perhaps Brian's whanau had a totally different experience, but mine was a bit show to action the 'you're in a Christian country now, niggaz - put on some pants and go to church'. I also think there's room to wonder just how 'Christian' 19th century England was, at least in the rather ill-defined sense Tamiki likes to throw around. Certainly, the political and social 'establishment' was at least nominally CofE, but the reality is a little more complex that folks who blather about 'Christian Nations' like to believe.
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And big gay Dalvainius Prime did more for modern Maori culture Tamaki or the Harawira mob, I would submit; shame on so-called Maori rights campaigners for shitting on Maori who are insufficiently Christian or heterosexual.
We might also bear in mind that Tariana Turia voted against the Civil Union Bill. And, of course, she has the odd creepy blurt about immigrants.
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Russell
"But you have to keep buying new ones, because the new ones are cuter than the old ones."
Heh, yup, cunning buggers. It's a question of taste though. I prefer my computers, and my cars, to have the meat hanging out of them for all to see. It's 7337 uc.
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Quick true story. Last year my (then) 6 year old got to type up a story in a school computer. I prodded a little bit and discovered that despite the fact they have a dozen or so PCs she had used the teacher's laptop. I engaged in some trouble shooting.
"Why?"
"Because the big computers were not working."
"What wasn't working?"
"The bit with the green field and clouds..."So much for "enterprise readiness".
I would like to respond to a few other comments above, in particular Danyl's as we are at the coal face of supporting Linux desktops and servers in corporate environments.
The short version of my response is...your information is outdated.
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Don, what flavor of desktops are u supporting?
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Thinking about Danyl's post.
In my experience open source software tends to be really great for people with degrees in computer science
Yep done a bit of this. It was good to learn after years of working in IT, just what people with formal education in these topics learnt. I don't think I learnt much.
who don't mind rewriting the odd perl file
If you can speak a language you're capable of doing this.
or recompiling their OS kernal every now and then
Never recompliled a kernel, but have written a wee bit of code that requires a compiler.
and a total freaking nightmare for the other 99.999999% of the population.
That's chain rattling. An enquiring mind and a little bit of (GN'R) patience are useful. Common sense too. I look at software in the following way. If kids can do it, it must be easy.
I tend to think of understanding technology simply as a literacy issue, in the same way that reading & writing was perhaps a hundred years ago. Now I'm as capable as anyone of making dumb choices, but where technology gets excessively difficult to understand I tend to think that 1 of 2 scenarios has occurred. Either I haven't found someone whose explanation is good enough, or someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. The end result being in either case being I need to increase my level of scruitiny, rather than bury my head in the sand.
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I'm not trying to demonstrate a state religion through God Defend New Zealand. We have no state religion.
I'm arguing that God Defend New Zealand, which was our National Hymn before it became one of our National Anthems, invokes a Christian God. No, it's not explicit, but nor are Abide with Me or Amazing Grace.
The "men of evry creed and race" bit, I hadn't thought of - but it can go the other way.
Men of every creed (including atheists) can come to New Zealand (as Bishop Tamaki has said they should be able to) - but once they get here, what should they do? Well, according to the National Anthem, pray (... to a Christian God - admittedly, implicity). You could argue that the National Anthem goes even further than Bishop Tamaki seeks (he doesn't want to force atheists to pray, just to not object when others do in public - like at the start of Parliament each day).
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I'd also add that my brief flirtation with Open Office ended when trying to write up some research and I found it couldn't calculate the equation of a line. Excel could, of course, and that seems like something that would be a basic requirement for a spreadsheet in a school.
Maybe they've fixed that now, and maybe that's the ONLY thing OpenOffice couldn't do that Excel could, but it gave me a pretty bad impression.
Excel. Yes there is a massive conversion nightmare there. Especially custom made applications in VBA. Microsoft have cunningly locked a lot of corporations in there. But we are talking about schools.
How do you think your kids report cards get wriiten nowadays?
Dim value As Integer = CInt(Int((6 * Rnd()) + 1))
If value = 1 then grade="A" & comment="Works well with others"
If value = 2 then grade="B" & comment="Needs to apply themselves more"
If value = 3 then grade="C" & comment="Is keen on sports"ect ect
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I would like to respond to a few other comments above, in particular Danyl's as we are at the coal face of supporting Linux desktops and servers in corporate environments.
The short version of my response is...your information is outdated.
Maybe - I haven't done IT support for many years now, and maybe the end users are a lot more savvy and quick on the uptake. However, I work at a university now and having seen some academics left utterly helpless after switching from Mac to PC and been unable to grasp the whole 'two button mouse' concept I'm dubious about the ability of a large user base to make the switch to a unix environment.
Y'all have seen this, right?
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Harking back to Craig earlier, I have to much of my problem with people wanting to declare "state religions" is the way it goes with an attitude that uses terms like "religious treason".
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Duh - correct link here
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_As for using open source office equivalents on school computers - surely it would be a good thing if kids were to learn not only how to type into a word processing program but also how to find bugs and participate if the open source environment that fixes those bugs. Surely that would result in more computer literacy rather than less._
Yes, and we could require that everyone learn to replace a piston before they learn to drive, or milk a cow before they learn to make tea. On that basis, I'm not going anywhere near an aeroplane!
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And big gay Dalvainius Prime did more for modern Maori culture Tamaki or the Harawira mob, I would submit;
Amen to that, though I do wonder if the great Dalvanius would be happy to be remembered as 'gay'. As he famously - and proudly - once claimed: 'I'm trisexual - I'll try anything.'
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