Hard News: Bean-Counting the Beat
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budgeting $1000 let alone $5000 doesn't say much for respecting the worth and talent of nz film and video makers either. The music industry has been relying on the good will of video talent for its entire existence.
maybe we're happier watching small indie done vids though, I certainly enjoy a great idea on a small budget, but then I like something with a bit of class too.
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Keep the level of funding for video as is, but keep it separate from the music division of NZoA cos essentially it's a completely different art form and nothing to do with radio and airplay so shouldn't be judged by the same criteria. The treatment offered for each tune and reputation of the production company should decide the outcome for each applicant and should be selected by a panel of visual artists.
I mean what the fuck do radio jocks and bureaucrats know about video art ? Some tunes make stunning videos but would never have a shit show of generating significant commercial radioplay. Sarah browns puppet video springs to mind. Even ladisix and Hollie smith as good as they are, arent exactly radio fodder but i'd rather fund them a video than op shop.
New recording grants on the other hand can be funded less $$$ but given out more as recording costs have changed significantly since digitalisation. Retroactive funding of proven internet hits can then increase production values for hardcopy release as a remix/video option.
I'm all for more money being pumped into the system just not for radio and not for crap artists who solely cater for radio and not to entrench more sycophantic public servants to pander to radio either.
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focus dubmugga, focus.
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don't get too excited with the internet revolution.
The people of the early 20th century were sure the skies would be full of zeppelins and the 70's kids knew we were all going to be living on the moon by the turn of the century.a viable ans sustainable model for music and the internet are still lofty concepts. Massive potential, but successes financially are exceptions rather than rules.
I'm off to the shops in my LZ 129 Zeppelin before I pop over to the space station to visit a friend, then we're going to pay off our production costs for our album and new video by making friends on myspace ;)
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focus dubmugga, focus.
Nah vision robbery, vision. Create a vision, see the bigger picture, hold it then worry about the incidental details later. You can always get someone else to do the focussing, like a focus group :)
Fast forward 10 yrs and if we don't start laying the foundation now as NZoA did 10 yrs ago we might be in even more of a mess with still no idea of how to get out of it.
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foundation now as NZoA did 10 yrs ago
what foundations? you mean the mission statement and objects?
fat lot of good that did if they're not actually going to stick to them.NZ on Air hasn't really laid the foundation for anything, they've just been pissing about with a budget. I'm not seeing any forward direction or master plan.
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budgeting $1000 let alone $5000 doesn't say much for respecting the worth and talent of nz film and video makers either. The music industry has been relying on the good will of video talent for its entire existence.
So true. But if you think you can make five clever videos on the same set, rather than do what the music channels (and the funding rules) say you should do, you deserve the chance. For $5k you could, for instance, tape a shit-hot live set, then pick the five songs you want and get tons of reach.
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I licensed a tune to a well known international label for a fairly significant sum just by entering an online voting competition for inclusion on its anniversary compilation. It was selected from about 80 tunes which made the labels cut to 10 and generated 80 000 votes. So in effect the public programmed the tracklist.
There's an interesting warning about online song contests in the last APRA magazine, but I'm guessing you've read that already.
There's no reason why we cant do that with demos currently submitted to NZoA for funding and applied to radio. NZoA can still fund retroactively as they do with the 5k for radio hits of the month...
Yeah, but why do I think we'll end up with 300 teenage girls deciding who gets funded? At what point do we agree that there weren't really enough votes to validate the poll? And how do we ensure bands/labels/managers don't manipulate the online vote to secure funding?
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For $5k you could, for instance, tape a shit-hot live set, then pick the five songs you want and get tons of reach.
every sneaky musician has already thought of or done that already. what fool would say "turn the cameras off, we've shot the footage for the song we got funding for",
the time and cost is mostly in the set up, and editing. an extra 40 mins filming time won't stretch the budget. editing it would though, if people were paying standard industry rates.its an interesting but unintentional side effect of not getting the funding you need that people become resourceful and in doing so come up with something interesting. Not always of course, and not for most people.
You should hardly base your funding system on that rule. It should be there to help, not their to create adverse conditions to spur people onto find creative work arounds.
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Yeah, but why do I think we'll end up with 300 teenage girls deciding who gets funded?
yes, exactly. NZ's history of recognising and supporting its achievements in music have been shocking.
Most of the stuff we pat ourselves on the back for now was completely ignored in its time. it seems to take 10 -20 years for the majority of nz to recognise its music achievements, which is slightly better than the art world where you mostly have to be dead and gone before anyone notices your talent.Music funding should be independent of mass acceptance, including NZ on air with its broadcasting bent. The whole point is not to cater to bad taste and lowest common denominator but to recognise worth while it is happening, and for that you need staff who are well versed and out there.
How often do NZ on Air staff go to gigs that aren't wine and cheese evenings with smart casual dress required. Can't say I've seen em anywhere, even at a recent show case they were present at in chch they were noticeable by their in attention or absence through most of the set. Hardly dedication to the job.
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NZ on Air hasn't really laid the foundation for anything, they've just been pissing about with a budget. I'm not seeing any forward direction or master plan.
What you see is what the vision was cos thats how clever the powers that be are/were. We now have more fly by night, one hit wonder, wannabe popstars churning out lo class rips of foreign muck than ever before. You have to believe that they foresaw this and laid the foundations accordingly. What they didnt see is the rise of internet streaming, file sharing and social networking stealing radios new musical discoveries thunder. But they should have if they had a vision as opposed to a narrow focus. Thats the foundations needing to be laid now to capitalise 10 yrs down the track when radio will truly be dead.
There's an interesting warning about online song contests in the last APRA magazine
Interesting trade off of copyright for cash. For an unknown with no track record it's virtually tradition that you get screwed on your first deal as you have no bargaining power and usually can't afford legal representation. Be prepared for that. If it's a signficant sum with a reputable label and all you got is one tune worth a damn, ask yourself, do you want half a watermelon or a whole grape ?
In hiphop theres often cases of beatmakers selling their works wholesale for an upfront fee to a producer and foregoing any copyrights. I've advised a few against that but when you coming up it can also be a good way to raise your profile.
double edged sword innit ?
Yeah, but why do I think we'll end up with 300 teenage girls deciding who gets funded? At what point do we agree that there weren't really enough votes to validate the poll? And how do we ensure bands/labels/managers don't manipulate the online vote to secure funding?
Whats wrong with 300 teenage girls deciding on the 'urban division's' tune for possible funding.Thats who the target is for that tune. It's crusty old white guys thinking they know what the public should hear thats the problem as is, isnt it ? I'd welcome the change.
By all means let bands/labels/managers manipulate the vote. That shows determination and commitment but really you cant fake the funk. A shit tune is a shit tune but i reckon it'd be blindingly obvious the difference between them getting spam votes and real hot tunes/artists. Sooner or later things would even out and genuine talent spotting tastemakers would reveal themselves separate from manipulative spammers.
But what, you dont think there'd be a select committee with a handy veto clause at the ready ???...heh
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Whats wrong with 300 teenage girls deciding on the 'urban division's' tune for possible funding.Thats who the target is for that tune
triple j and twice the t, nuff said.
By all means let bands/labels/managers manipulate the vote.
what's the difference between your system and the present nz on air system. its all manipulation, only thing is who's in control.
Culture isn't about pop stars of exclusive of them.
Cultural funding is a reaction to hindsight (shit didn't we have some great music with really shitty recordings and now thats lost for ever, wished we'd done something about it at the time), replacing it with foresight I guess (we look back on our music as an indicator of who we were as people, swingers counting the beat video, various split enz, suburban Reptiles etc all give us an indication of what we were doing back then, be it strange or something we look on with pride.We don't "need" people working in music, there are plenty of industries to get a living from, we need to record and appreciate our music as a nation, cos its supposed to communicate who we are to ourselves, and then we need to preserve it.
The nz on air mission statement captures that aim quite well but they sure as shit haven't managed to put that into action, and I think that's down to personnel. Bean counters and commercial radio programmers do not an insightful forward thinking crew make. we should know that. Which is why I want Brendan Smyth moved out of his position and replaced by someone who can deal with sociological and heritage issues. Sorry Brendan, you've had way more than your fair chance and mostly you've got disgruntled artists who feel NZ on Air has nothing to do with them.
Very interesting to see at a recent CHCH music industry questions an answers session where various members of the 'music industry'were invided to talk to the chch music community to answer questions on how they could better do their art and trade. The nz on air table was quite often without interested parties, where as other guest speakers were occupied pretty much continuously.
When local bands were quizzed as to why they didn't want to speak with the NZ on Air crew they said they saw no point in it. Better to get on with it in other ways. (the sam scott approach). Hardly a glowing endorsement of an organisation serving its target. -
triple j and twice the t, nuff said.
sorry bro don't get the inference, care to explain ?
what's the difference between your system and the present nz on air system. its all manipulation, only thing is who's in control.
Transparency and putting the control in the hands of the target market to choose who gets their tax paid funding is what it's all about isnt it ? It wouldnt take long to figure out whos manipulating and how, then devise ways to stop them/ it.Its got to be better than the faceless manipulation and control with no accountability for selection we currently have.
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I think Robbery meant to cite Double J and Twice the T. If he had, that would just about be the most offensive thing he's put on this thread :-)
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^^I'd say. Considering they were exploited by ray columbus to cash in on the youf market and probably funded cos of the good ol boy connection still running most things in this industry.
Aint no way 300 teenage grils woulda voted that shit in.
Which brings another thought to mind. In the 'idol' series how easy would it be to manipulate those votes and doesnt idol make a case for audience chosen artists with a panel guiding selection and nurturing said artists ?
Or how about savage getting signed worldwide cos of a buzz on the net. Aint no way our system would recognize a big scary polynesian rapper as someone worthy of funding outright.
If they did they'd fund colourway or MrSicc who also have a bit of following on line albeit from the undesriable street element and we cant have that affecting the impressionable youf despite the fact that they already are.
The current system just reeks of hypocrisy.
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I think Robbery meant to cite Double J and Twice the T. If he had, that would just about be the most offensive thing he's put on this thread :-)
Thus demonstrating the complete throwaway nature of their existence, aside from the unconscious insult, I try not to clutter my memory with things better forgotten?
Where are those guys now anyway? jail term?as for offensive, I've got a couple of goodies I'm holding back, pacing myself. are you challenging me to up the anty? Cos I will :)
In the 'idol' series
don't bring up that stinker or this will get nasty.
NZ on Air funded that to the tune of 1/4 the yearly music budget (although it came out of the tv fund I think, cos it sure had nothing to do with music culture). The show was apparently very popular, got lots of watchers, and plenty of advertising sold, and still they managed to not make it break even and thus didn't have to pay back the money they were given to make it. That smells of something rather rancid to me.and if you're looking to 300 teenage girls to know significant culture when they saw it, you don't get my vote.
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One of the J's became a mormon missionary, the other became 'MC ovadose' of 'Radio Backstab' fame and one of NZ's best beatboxers he was also tutoring at otara music centre last i heard which was a while ago.
Theres lots of rancid things floating around the rarified air of the music industry.
300 teenage girls might not know about significant culture but given the option theyd provide a better snapshot of whats popping in the contemporary music scene than a bureaucrat, a radio programmer and a frustrated music exec locked in a room.
Come to think of it, I'm not to sure I'd be able to recognize significant culture without some sort of payola. Maybe the music commish can have significant culture spotting workshops ?
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Considering they were exploited by ray columbus to cash in on the youf market and probably funded cos of the good ol boy connection still running most things in this industry.
Where do you get your info from? Ray Columbus had nothing to do with it. It was Mike Chunn who thought the country was ready for a rap version of She's A Mod. If you check the songwriting credits you'll see that the track is actually called She's A Mod / Mod Rap (Medley) and that Chunn 'wrote' the 'medley' part, allowing him to get (part of) the royalties.
Where are those guys now anyway? jail term?
Wow - is there a reason you think they're in jail? Do you think the same of that chap from World Gone Wild?
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Ray Columbus had nothing to do with it.
ray was their mentor or manager or something. it was this band and rays pushing that lead QEII to raise the bench mark for grants from 50 x $1000 to 10 x $5000. Ray was the man who pushed that through. I was at the meeting and had a fight with him over it. He won.
Wow - is there a reason you think they're in jail?
do I need a reason?
cos when people vanish or long periods of time .........I'd forgotten what the song was, mod rap, hilarious, didn't know chunn was involved, that makes me kinda sad, just a little,
He took a producer credit though, doesn't say writing credit on that page. Bet the royalties for that were massive, like $50 or something. you could fund an indie video with that these days.medleys, there's a career in that for someone.
Do you think the same of that chap from World Gone Wild?
don't know him but if you think its a good cheap shot laugh I'll go for it :)
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if Brendan's not going to show up is it ok if I sign up another account under his name and make some comments? anyone object?
I've got some classic alternative catch phrases for nz on air if anyones interested? no?
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One of the J's became a mormon missionary, the other became 'MC ovadose' of 'Radio Backstab' fame and one of NZ's best beatboxers he was also tutoring at otara music centre last i heard which was a while ago.
what happened to twice the t, were there 2 people with t's in their name too?
I had no idea there were 2 j's. you learn something every day,................which you can then shut out of your mind at a later date of course.
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ray was their mentor or manager or something
I think Chunn was the creative force behind this effort. He may have handed the act over to Columbus once he got his radio hit.
I CALL ON SIMON GRIGG TO ARBITRATE/INFORM/EDUCATE!
He seems to know alot about a lot of things. My info is based on my distant memories from interviewing them in 1989. They were very nice genuine chaps, and I winced inwardly because they sincerely believed that 'anything was possible' ie they might have overseas success too. I guess OMC proved them right. -
don't you think we're giving too much 'air time' to what was essentially a dark spot on the lung of nz music. middle aged men trying to create a happening hip hop track off a 60's hit of one of said middle aged men?
If I'd known you were going to get so notalgic about them I'd have picked another miscalculated blip on the kiwi music scope, hmmm, so many to choose from,.....
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nostalgic, of course,
sorry, geoff, I'll try to keep a better eye on my spelling.
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It's crusty old white guys thinking they know
Who you talkin' 'bout, Willis?
A shit tune is a shit tune
And when you get to my age you realise someone is always ready to swallow a shit tune. You really can fool some of the people all of the time ...
And when you get to my age you also realise that one person's shit tune is another person's Anthem ...
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