Hard News: Be the party of good science
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must preview, must preview damn
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Would NZers have reacted any differently if the light bulb policy was imposed from abroad, for instance by the American Clean Energy & Security Act or Euro Union standards?
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Didn't the bulb minimum standards also require the CFLs to have passed minimum reliability standards? (I'm not sure about my memory here).
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Geez St ephen- what on earth is wrong with the wiring in your house?
I live in an area notorious for power surges, brownouts, and outright lightening strike. I changed incandescent bulbs, on average, every 2 months. That's every bulb in the house (12.) Except for the halogen desklamp (I need v. concentrated light to read & work by) - dear little sucker has lasted over 2& a half years...I changed over to CFLs two years ago: I have replaced, in that period, *4* bulbs.
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Well, whatever is wrong with our wiring, it doesn't affect incandescent bulbs. There are bigger money and power savers available to us anyway - like uninstalling our heat pumps...
From memory, the Consumer report on the EECA website was only able to recommend three or four of the dozen CFL bulbs on offer, which seems like pretty bad odds for the unsuspecting shopper.
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It's not necessarily for there to be any conspiricy, R A. That's the gist of Manufacturing Consent, and other commentary on this matter; it could be a systemic problem.
God no. Didn't mean to imply that. It isn't a shadowy cabal just accountants maximising the amount of money made in the media. that it no longer meets the wants of the public is irrelevant to them so long as they can sell the product.
Interesting. If I understand you correctly, the argument is something like: the media industry has become de facto incentivised (economically) to encourage journalism to be more superficial (and therefore cheaper, i guess), but not so superficial as to actually cause significant numbers of people to switch off the TV in disgust. In other words, the system as a whole trends to a point just above the bottom of the barrel.
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Re the media. What did you think of the breathless One News coverage (tonight) of national's emission scheme changes?
http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/emissions-scheme-cost-kiwis-less-2989949
Also, there's an article in the new Metro by Charlotte Grimshaw about the need for Sainsbury and Campbell to "man up" in their respective "current affairs" shows.
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Russell,
I really do read this stuff, a more than tripling of production constitutes a market success:
Between 2001 and 2006, production of compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs) in China-which accounts for roughly 85 percent of global output-tripled from 750 million to 2.4 billion units.
And since (as you so kindly highlight) this occurs before even the first government ban:
In 2007, Australia became the first country to ban the sale of incandescent bulbs, and sales there will be phased out entirely by 2009.
Maybe
Because although everywhere else in the world is adopting efficiency standards in this area, and it's driving the new market in CFL bulbs, our government shouldn't do it because...
...the old market that existed prior to government intervention was tripling every 5 years and we don't want to screw that up.
What those laws will do will increase the price of CFLs by mandating demand uptake in the EU, Japan, Nth America and Aussie; whilst increasing prices might slow uptake in Asia, Africa, Latin America and NZ. Its 50:50 as to if it is even good for the planet.
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I agree with Jeremey Eade @ 1205pm
Lets give some credit to the party and voters, National only won by imitation.
Goff needs to start setting the record straight on the last Labour government .The record in the context of the array governments that proceeded them since 1975 is was pretty fucking impressive on many fronts including 9 years of economic growth.
You were the natural party of government for nearly a decade , a legacy impressive enough to be copied by national party strategists in that this first term National Government knows that the famed mainstream voter liked Clarks sense of fairness enough for 3 succesisve election victories. -
Danyl Mclauchlan wrote:
My Father was very angry with the lightbulb ban, not because he's a climate change denier but because almost every light switch in his house is on a dimmer switch, CFLs blow up if you put them into those sockets and he was going to have to get his whole house rewired.
Whoever told him that was talking bullshit. You just reconnect the wires in the wall-switch to bypass the dimmer -- takes me about five minutes. The only exception might be the 1970s dimmers, which you can just replace with a modern switch for as little as $13.00 (depending on how fancy-looking you want it).
Alternatively, he could just buy the dimming CFLs (although this is a more expensive option).
This kind of misinformation typified the whole debate...
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@Brickley
Eh? That's like putting fluoride -- another dialectic in NZ...thought that one died out in the 60s everywhere else
Um here in the UK we are having that exact debate right in the here and now whereas the folate in bread debate was won here a long time ago. These arguments run on different timescales in different places due in large part to the nature of the players in the debate. If for eg a respected public health scientist heads up the anti debate and sticks with it over decades that can derail and delay implementation. The science is rarely completely watertight in all respects and it always comes down to health economics which people hate thinking about (how can they put a price on someone's life?). So someone who works on accentuating the demonstrable negatives while denigrating the positives from apparently high minded principles can be persuasive to a lot of people.
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A dead worldview of DWM union bosses
What is that dead worldview according to you?
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Wow. A withering blog post by Charles Chauvel over the Maori Party's ETS deal with National.
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...the old market that existed prior to government intervention was tripling every 5 years and we don't want to screw that up.
What those laws will do will increase the price of CFLs by mandating demand uptake in the EU, Japan, Nth America and Aussie; whilst increasing prices might slow uptake in Asia, Africa, Latin America and NZ. Its 50:50 as to if it is even good for the plane
Good grief man, have some faith in the market!
Isn't it more likely that manufacturers will greatly appreciate the advance signal provided by regulatory certainty, and duly plan to increase CFL production? It's not like China is short of capacity.
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The problem with the Parliamentary Labour Party isn't that they want bad things; it's that they are going about good things the wrong way.
To be fair Labour suffered with plodding electoral partners. The second and third terms were compromised by the greens, its most logical electoral partner not getting enough popular vote.
It's also important to note that 1999 labour were very sensitive about being seen business friendly in order to return in 2002 and 2005 not that the business community ever gave Cullen the respect he deserved in his overtures to them.
Labour moved up to the centre in order to set up 1999, National moved down to the centre in 2008 and yet the centre is going to be the deathslide of this country. The centre is stale and sterile.
Goff needs to ignore the tired political geography and smash around some good uplifting hardcore labour principles of equality and fairness. The task is to take Labour principles and fight with them. They are the solution. The centre is just a concept that was thought up to sell newspapers.
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Patrick Smellie shows good foresight in his recent column about the motivations for the ETS report delay, before it was released. Among a range of suggestions:
Did the Maori Party perhaps decide to have another crack at cutting a forestry deal with National to support their ETS, having reportedly failed with Labour in a similar negotiation before it opposed Labour's ETS?
He has a follow-up story today. And Idiot/Savant has a graph.
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The centre is just a concept that was thought up to sell newspapers.
Sure it's not a feature of MMP?
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It disturbs me that Labour appears to be trying to woo voters back by being more like National.
Well National won last year by becoming more like Labour, so you can't blame Labour for thinking the reverse might be worth a crack.
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I got my cfl dimmer bulbs from the local supermarket, but they are also readily available at lighting shops. They're recessed into the ceiling and work just fine. I think I've only ever replaced one cfl bulb in the whole house, over several years, compared to one of the old sort every few months. Same as Islander, they used to blow up quite frequently, especially in damp weather. The 'warm up' period is trivial, and the colour is fine, just like incandescent light.
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Call it another modus tollens (thank you Jack) - Science = Unnatural, imaginary made-up bullshit = Not Science, therefore Not Unnatural.
Actualy, I'd call that "denial of the antecedent".
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More (thanks George) of Jeanette Fitzsimons taking Goff to task for undermining efforts against climate change by stupidly repeating Nact attack lines.
Your government never proposed restricting people’s showers or forcing them to use a particular type of light. You probably never understood that – certainly your minister for Building and Housing didn’t, and ran for cover rather than explain to the media that Nick Smith was lying.
...The proposed standard for hot water use is the same as has been done for years in the Building Code for home heating. We are used to not being allowed to build houses with no insulation. Everyone supports that, it is a no-brainer. No-one describes that as nanny-state.
...Phil, a lot hangs on you if we are to prevent a second term of this government. Get some PR advice and stand for something. Have a good conference.
Ouch.
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Isn't it more likely that manufacturers will greatly appreciate the advance signal provided by regulatory certainty, and duly plan to increase CFL production? It's not like China is short of capacity.
Yes reckon you are right, but production was growing at 30% each year so perhaps the regulatory approach is a excellent solution thats only flaw is the absence of an actual problem.
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We need adult politics.
Well, jeremy, I'd respectfully suggest throwing up your hands and blaming "the Kiwiblog right" or the media is a pretty piss poor way to go about it. Been rather ironic that I'm in Melbourne as Labour celebrates a decade since the State victory that just wasn't supposed to happen; and no matter how sleazy and downright incompetent the Labour government is, I don't see the Liberals regaining power when they're stuck in mindless, knee-jerk opposition for the sake of opposing.
Oh well, Salvador Dali tomorrow -- which sounds about right.
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Oh, my respect for Phil Goff would increase exponentially if the likes of Mallard, Cosgrove and Shane Jones were told to shut the fuck up occasionally. Mindless populism at its least attractive, and all it proves to me is that there's section of the Labour Party that views "battlers from Struggle Street" with poorly disguised contempt.
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Labour moved up to the centre in order to set up 1999, National moved down to the centre in 2008 and yet the centre is going to be the deathslide of this country. The centre is stale and sterile.
Goff needs to ignore the tired political geography and smash around some good uplifting hardcore labour principles of equality and fairness. The task is to take Labour principles and fight with them. They are the solution. The centre is just a concept that was thought up to sell newspapers.
Pardon me for saying so but... bollocks.
The parties move to the centre because that's where most people are.
It is actually possible to follow some of the core beliefs of the left (e.g. equality, helping others) while adhering to some on the right (e.g. self responsibility, individualism). That's in fact probably what most people do. That's why the call it the "centre". They're not identifiably on either side of the spectrum.
The centre is a fine old place to be, in my opinion.
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