Hard News: Awesome
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'the truth will come out when the MSM investigate'. Or will they?
On what grounds should they? I'm sure some tabloid loon will pick it up and run with it, but why should the MSM touch this particular turd? On the basis of what evidence?
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Wow, did they REALLY hit the "her handicapped child isn't really hers" story that quickly?
Ick. -
Maybe we should lend them Jonathon Marshall to ferrit out the scandal:
Oh, for fuck's sake John. I actually agree with you, as long as Marshall is stripped of his citizenship and refused entry back into New Zealand when he's done. One might think that Marshall would be the last person on earth to be quite so casual about destroying someone else's career and reputation -- you know, those who live in out houses (and have a less than entirely savoury history themselves) should complain that others stink. But I guess self-awareness, shame and common decency are qualities definitely NOT required to work at the Sunday News.
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Here's more photoshop-truthiness about Palin. For the lolz, of course.
Whatever the truth of the matter, that's genius for so many reasons. Then there's this decision tree.
It would help to make more sense of this if we knew a bit more about her other labours. Did they take days and days? In which case, she might be forgiven for assuming she was in for another leisurely labour with baby #5 and acting accordingly. But once your waters break, you can go from no discernible labour to delivery in less than an hour, and she must have known she was taking a major risk.
The eyebrow-raising timeline -- delivering the speech, getting on a plane for 6 hours, and then on another plane for an hour or so, and then driving for yet another hour past one major hospital to get to the smaller one where she ultimately delivered (or met) the baby -- is what, I think, is making the conspiracy scenario seem so plausible.
Because otherwise you've got someone who is blithely prepared to give birth to a premature special needs child on a commercial airliner. Which raises questions about her judgement under pressure... or makes her the most fervent home(state)birther I've ever heard of! (Plus, cervix of steel, yo!)
Perhaps, too, the conspiracy chatter is a way of venting some diffuse cultural anxiety (from all quarters, fundies to feminists) about women going back to work (and what work!) so soon after birth? Is it somehow more comforting to think that she's misguidedly protecting her daughter from social opprobrium, than that she's out there training for the presidency from scratch, in public, on broken sleep, while pumping breastmilk round the clock for her nursing infant, y'know?
(I'm not saying she shouldn't, I'm just saying, I know I couldn't! And I doubt many new fathers would make a decent fist of it either.)
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Well, hello. So Bristol is not the mother of little Trig, because she's currently 5 months pregnant with her own baby.
Nothing wrong with teen pregnancy, but ouch! Not a great look for a staunch proponent of abstinence-only sex education!
So will Palin stand down, or will she brazen this one out??
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See also this comment on the NY Times article from someone aptly called "huh?":
To counter the rumor that the anti-choice, pro-abstinence VP nominee’s teenage daughter had sex and a baby out of wedlock, they release the news that her teenage daughter had sex and is going to have a baby out of wedlock
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Because otherwise you've got someone who is blithely prepared to give birth to a premature special needs child on a commercial airliner. Which raises questions about her judgement under pressure... or makes her the most fervent home(state)birther I've ever heard of! (Plus, cervix of steel, yo!)
It's quite a relief to see you say so. I've been scorned as the scum of the earth on the other thread for suggesting her actions were odd and risky.
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So will Palin stand down, or will she brazen this one out??
How this one plays out is going to be genuinely interesting. And if you were the daughter, wouldn't you just love being dragged into this kind of national spotlight at age seventeen? But that's by the by.
She's going to marry the chap, start a family at an age that some fundies would argue is almost late (what was she doing with all that unused fertility in her earlier teens?). There is the matter of sex before marriage I guess, but on balance I don't think it's going to hurt her mum at all.
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It's quite a relief to see you say so. I've been scorned as the scum of the earth on the other thread for suggesting her actions were odd and risky.
I'm so dense I didn't notice there was another thread. Just heading over to check it out!
How this one plays out is going to be genuinely interesting.
Absolutely. First reports from the Republican convention suggest a wave of "oh my gods" followed by professions of warmth and understanding and "it could happen to anybody"s.
But here's the other thing: if Bristol is "about five months pregnant" -- which is to say, 16 weeks or so, given the oddities of dating the beginning of a pregnancy -- then the original rumour is not at all disproven. Especially if she was not allowed to breastfeed the first baby: fertility can come back very quickly, and I'm sure we all know at least one set of Irish twins...
Other observations encountered online today: that the speedy flight home was because the baby had already arrived (which is why he's not mentioned on the hospital website). That they had lined up an adoption which fell through when he was prenatally diagnosed, hence the charade. And lots of other stuff, some of it completely scurrilous, but much of it totally possible. It's not an uncommon approach (hiding a teen pregnancy by claiming the mother has had a late baby - see Jack Nicholson, Ted Bundy, and countless non-famous people).
My partner's charitable take on the flight back from Texas is that Palin was exaggerating, perhaps unconsciously, to prove what a hard-arse she is. "Oh yah, I totally flew 8 hours while in labour, that's how tough we are up here in Alaska." That's a possibility I hadn't considered, and a perfectly plausible one.
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Well, hello. So Bristol is not the mother of little Trig, because she's currently 5 months pregnant with her own baby.
Nothing wrong with teen pregnancy, but ouch! Not a great look for a staunch proponent of abstinence-only sex education!
Sure, but Bristol Palin is no more her mother's keeper than Chelsea Clinton is (or was) her parents. (And one thing I would give the Bill and Hill Circus all credit for is that they came across as genuinely wanting to keep their child out of the public eye as much as decently possible.)
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then the original rumour is not at all disproven. Especially if she was not allowed to breastfeed the first baby: fertility can come back very quickly, and I'm sure we all know at least one set of Irish twins...
Fuck. Could we lay off this crap, pretty please? Questioning Palin's choice of flying during labour is one thing, latching on to this revolting 'story' quite another. The confusion among the two I believe is what might have led to Russell being called a scumbag in the other thread.
Nobody is going to care about us here, of course. But already McCain has tried to tie Obama to the Kos story, and I wonder to what extent it is actually unfair, seeing how ready we are to ascribe anti-Obama slurs to "the Republicans".
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Fuck. Could we lay off this crap, pretty please?
If only I were sure it was crap. It seems as plausible to me as the alternatives, or did I just have a more gothic Catholic secrets and lies childhood than most?
If it can happen to Britney, it can happen to anyone.
Sure, but Bristol Palin is no more her mother's keeper than Chelsea Clinton is (or was) her parents.
Of course not. Still not a good look for a vocal proponent of abstinence-only sex education.
And one thing I would give the Bill and Hill Circus all credit for is that they came across as genuinely wanting to keep their child out of the public eye as much as decently possible.
Who doesn't? So again, another reason to question the judgement of a person who accepted the job offer while knowing she had a few surprises up her sleeve that would inevitably involve a huge media focus on her children.
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If only I were sure it was crap.
I don't accept that, in fact it's the very thing that bothers me. All that we have to go on this is the (anonymous) Kos diary, that's the story in its entirety - all the links lead back to that. And the evidence simply doesn't exist, it's a lunatic rave. We're not entitled to discuss whether it's true or not.
Otherwise, tell you what: let's start a rumour right here that Jolisa Gracewood and Giovanni Tiso beat their respective children. It's just as substantiated. Would it be newsworthy, in their circles at least? Well, yes, I believe so, they pride themselves on being good parents. But where's your evidence? I don't have any evidence as such, but it could be true. Shit, anything could be true. And it's out there now, so let's discuss it.
Except the Palin story is worse, in that it doesn't just shame the mother, but also her daughter. A sixteen year old kid who missed some time at school stands now and possibly forever accused to have let her mum raise her own kid in order not to ruin a political career. We're not implicated because we didn't start the rumour. But to me entertaining the rumour is just as bad. After all, if the mods of another forum just like this one had deleted the post instead of leaving it there to fester, there would be absolutely nothing to this.
Some people on MyDD are patting themselves on the back today because of how quickly the blogosphere disproved this story. Say what? This is seriously fucked up.
And, on a sidenote: it could backfire very, very badly. Up until last Monday I didn't see a way for Obama to lose this election. Now I can.
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And, on a sidenote: it could backfire very, very badly. Up until last Monday I didn't see a way for Obama to lose this election. Now I can.
Giovanni: We're going to have to stop meeting like this. :) While I'm fully respectful of where Jolisa is coming from (I don't think for a moment she's some Wishart-ish panty-sniffer), and there is a perfectly legitimate sniff test as to whether Palin's actions match her rhetoric, I can't believe McCain's been handed an opportunity to paint himself and Palin as victims of a gutter-hit.
First, it's damn hypocritical considering that McCain may not be personally responsible for the ugly smears against Barack and Michelle Obama, but he's been quite happy to echo and benefit from them.
But most importantly, it's not as if this pick (and Palin's thin record) doesn't provide enough ammo to question McCain's judgement, and Palin's sheer competence, without using her daughter as an offensive weapon.
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And you know something, what the hell is Sarah Palin supposed to do? She throws her impure slut daughter out in the street, she's a monster. She's trying to deal with a situation I'm pretty damn sure nobody directly involved would be in by choice, with some humanity and common sense and she's a right-wing hypocrite.
Now, here's something I'd love attention to turn on: I wonder how many of the convention delegates gathering in Minnesota sending (as Jolisa puts it) "professions of warmth and understanding and "it could happen to anybody" to Governor Palin and her daughter, walk the talk in their own communities towards girls whose names we're never going to know.
Now, I know some folks regard the Catholic sacrament of confression as some cosmic Get Out of Jail Free card. It's nothing of the sort -- and I was taught that part of the process is a deep and fearless examination of conscience. And, if you approach it humbly and sincerely, fronting your own sin is hard.
I really hope there are a few theo-cons out there who are going to taking a good hard look at themselves, and whether they've truly walked the talk when it comes to Jesus' command to not only love your neighbour as yourself, but to remember that what you do to the least of God's children you do also unto him.
And that, boys and girls, is one motherfucker of a road to walk.
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Now, here's something I'd love attention to turn on: I wonder how many of the convention delegates gathering in Minnesota sending (as Jolisa puts it) "professions of warmth and understanding and "it could happen to anybody" to Governor Palin and her daughter, walk the talk in their own communities towards girls whose names we're never going to know.
Speaking from a certain degree of personal experience: in conservative Christian circles, a teenage mum is a slut unless she and the dad get married. Then she becomes saintly. That applies to governor's daughters just as much as, er, my grandma.
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“Our people were not involved in any way in this and they will not be,” Mr. Obama snapped, his voice raised. “And if I ever thought there was somebody in my campaign that was involved in something like that, they’d be fired, O.K.?”
Mr. Obama said the pregnancy “has no relevance to Governor Palin’s performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president.” He added that, “my mother had me when she was 18. How a family deals with issues and teen-age children — that shouldn’t be the topic of our politics.”
“So,” he added, “I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories.”
Class.
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giovanni and Obama have it right on this. There is so much more to criticise about the Palin choice than what her children do or do not get up to. Big oil and the lies over the "Bridge to Nowhere" would be a good start.
Obama:
"I have said before and I will repeat again: People's families are off limits," Obama said. "And people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor and/or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18 and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn't be a topic of our politics." [...]
"I am offended by that statement. There is no evidence at all that any of this involved us," he said. "Our people were not involved in any way in this, and they will not be. And if I thought there was somebody in my campaign who was involved in something like that, they would be fired."
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He's quick that man Judd...
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*squee* I've got a campaign slogan for Obama: BE QUIET, THE GROWN-UPS ARE TALKING. :)
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giovanni and Obama have it right on this
What were you saying? Sorry, I was busy printing T-shirts.
Soon enough, Obama is going to liken himself to Giovanni Tiso. And McCain will reply that the comparison is ludicrous.
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The Bag does his visual take on Sarah Palin via Meghan McCain's blog
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Sorry, coming a little late to the piece, but it seems to me that the proper response to the idea that being a good mother is a relevant credential for being VP is "no it isn't", not "but she's actually a bad mother"...
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Realistically, though, Palin's family isn't going to not be news, if only because the ethics investigation in which she's about to be deposed under oath is all about a family feud that she and her husband chose to extend into her official role.
It seems in general that Todd Palin doesn't understand the boundaries of being "first dude".
So yeah, I'm picking that it gets a little more Jerry Springer yet.
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So yeah, I'm picking that it gets a little more Jerry Springer yet.
As a longtime fan and viewer of the Jerry Springer Show, I've got to say that I think this saga is a lot more 'class-ay'. It really has more of a Montel Williams or, at a pinch, Maury Povich (who specialises in paternity tests) vibe to me. :)
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