Hard News: About Occupy Wall Street
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DCBCauchi, in reply to
for a culture not meant to be able to count past 5 is interesting.
One interesting thing connecting some (possibly all?) Australian and American cultures is the way their languages are oriented around space.
You don't say 'in front of me, behind me, above, below'. You say 'south, west, north, east'. What you say depends powerfully on what direction you're facing when you're saying it.
Spatial orientation to the stars. It's a big thing.
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DCBCauchi, in reply to
I don’t see why Aboriginal culture and technology would not have changed radically over that 20,000 years: if it hadn’t it would surely be unique in the world. It’s just a pity that history with all its changes and nuances is lost to us.
Because it visibly demonstrably hasn’t. They paint their pictures the same way. The same pictures. Tell the same stories.
They developed their technology and way of living with their land a long time ago. At least a couple of ice ages ago. It doesn’t change at the same pace and in the same way as ours does. It’s ancient, not modern. (I’m using ‘them’ and ‘us’ specifically here.)
For most of the time humans have been around, we used the same tools the same way no matter where or when we lived. Then, around 40,000 years ago or so, there was a cultural explosion of innovation, one still working itself out today.
The Australians are one result of that. We're another. Who's way of living makes more sense now?
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BenWilson, in reply to
It was a way of dealing with scarcity.
Yes. From the point of view of the conquered it was not profitable, of course. But it's only very recently that loot has not been a basic expectation for a soldier, and much more if you are high ranked. The highest classes of people took part deliberately, because the rewards were great.
You say scattered. I say focusing. From a whole variety of perspectives.
I think they're in a state of aporia, that all alternatives seem to lead nowhere. This was where Socrates always led his victims, because that's where his teachable moment was at it's most powerful, when the student is confused at the collapse of their own beliefs. They can be focused, for sure. It's what they most want, because aporia is an uncomfortable feeling. I just hope the focusing goes somewhere useful.
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James W, in reply to
Russell, "notorious douchebag PJ O'Rourke" gets his ass handed to him on this very issue on the latest Real Time with Bill Maher (episode #227). If you can't find it anywhere, the audio podcast is available for download in NZ.
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Spatial orientation to the stars. It’s a big thing.
You might then enjoy The Revolving Boy by Gertrude Friedberg (1966).
I remember getting this out, as a kid, from the original (old brick) Chchch library, and really liking it and the ideas therein - even though someone stole my bike while I was in there! -
Lilith __, in reply to
They developed their technology and way of living with their land a long time ago. At least a couple of ice ages ago. It doesn’t change at the same pace and in the same way as ours does.
No offence, DCB, but how do you know this?
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Lilith __, in reply to
the original (old brick) Chchch library
I'm so sad about that building! I too have childhood memories of it. One was of seeing a mouse and wondering if it had come to eat the biscuits the librarian was surreptitiously munching.
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linger, in reply to
The last time I looked into the topic, the findings available were that the observed frequencies of features such as “eh” or high-rise terminal intonation were higher in NZ conversation & interview samples (e.g. Porirua) than in similar Australian samples (e.g. Sydney) and therefore we tentatively concluded that these were NZE features introduced to Australia, rather than vice versa. Nor are they limited to Auckland, though they are more common in conversations from Māori than Pākehā, or from working-class than middle-class. (“eh” is assumed to be a borrowing of the conversational particle ne from Māori.)
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DCBCauchi, in reply to
No offence, DCB, but how do you know this?
I don't know this. That's what makes sense to me, based on what I do know.
However, I do know that their paintings haven't changed in any kind of radical way. Nothing like the way ours has. And I know that, if you sit next to an Australian painter and ask them what they're doing, they'll tell you all about it. I haven't done it myself, but I've watched people do it, and a friend of mine has.
I don't think the contemporary Australian painter's either lying or mistaken about what they do. They simply tell you like it is.
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DCBCauchi, in reply to
I just hope the focusing goes somewhere useful.
I don't think it's something you merely watch and hope about. It's something you play a part in. You have something to contribute. Something important.
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DCBCauchi, in reply to
You might then enjoy The Revolving Boy by Gertrude Friedberg (1966).
Yes, I might well. I've never heard of it before. Cheers!
Speaking of neglected sf, has anyone read 'Floating worlds'? By Cecelia Holland. Also I think 1966. Classic anarchist sf.
Great scene at the start when people come to complain cos they're not getting their way and she tells them what for.
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Sacha, in reply to
these were NZE features introduced to Australia
I've long maintained that Kylie Mole is one of our greatest triumphs of cross-Tasman linguistic colonisation.
Nor are they limited to Auckland, though they are more common in conversations from Māori than Pākehā
Did wonder if Auckland's browner, younger population might be a factor.
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Islander, in reply to
well you do – the rest of us hear that and think “Aucklander” ….
Ur, no: the interrogative nei? (in the South, not ne? as in other parts) quickly became eh? in the South, and has spread pretty well everywhere here (as well as
North.) -
BenWilson, in reply to
I don't think it's something you merely watch and hope about. It's something you play a part in. You have something to contribute. Something important.
Such as? Not being rude, but I'm in aporia too, so I'm teachable.
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Paul Campbell, in reply to
Growing up down south no one added "eh" to their sentences - in fact I remember other kids doing it pretending to be from Auckland (to make fun of Aucklanders) - in 60s/70s very white-bread Dunedin I doubt anyone thought of this as being a Maori thing -
This doesn't mean it isn't a Maori crossover into English, just that it probably crossed over where there was a lot more more opportunity - I certainly still think of Aucklanders as saying "eh" (rather than people from say Wellington) - and when I was living overseas and after a decade in the US the NZ and Aussie accents seemed to start to blend into one it was the Aucklanders whose accent seemed to do it first.
Having all TV come from Auckland will of course eventually make all this go away as regional accents are more and more sidelined in popular culture
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Sacha, in reply to
very white-bread Dunedin
QED
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
How much of TVNZ's 2007 output was house pr0n?
How much of TV3's (and the rest of t3h meedja) output is still house pr0n? Fluctuations in housing prices are front-page news for Granny on a regular basis.
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DCBCauchi, in reply to
Such as? Not being rude, but I’m in aporia too, so I’m teachable.
Such as bringing your very fine mind to the problems at hand. Where you see people struggling with something, give them a hand, tell them the way you see it.
I’m not sure where you live. But a keyboard connected to the internet is a very powerful tool indeed.
The best way to solve problems is to get a whole bunch of people who know how to do different things together to make suggestions and nut it all out. Break it down. Step by step. Piece by piece. Never losing sight of the picture-as-a-whole, no matter your momentary focus on this bit of the background here or that figure detail there.
Essentially, it’s all just one big project management problem. Whether you’re making a painting or whatever.
I've consulted widely while making my next show. People who know different things nutting it out together. And that's just for some paintings.
From what I've read of what you have to say, Ben, you have a large and important contribution to make. I shouldn't have to tell you this.
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And that’s kind of it in a nutshell.
With this thing that’s going on, everyone has a part to play. Everyone has something to say. Everyone has a place to stand.
For it to work, everyone has to do their bit. Everyone knows what they're good at. So do it.
Compulsory philosophy of science FTW!!!
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Sacha, in reply to
Having all TV come from Auckland will of course eventually make all this go away as regional accents are more and more sidelined in popular culture
Real broadband means most audio-visual representations will be locally produced by cultures all over the world (our schools leading the way here), and broadcast TV will continue to lose ground as a dominant form. Diversity will increase at the expense of coherence. There's a challenge.
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andin, in reply to
People who know different things nutting it out together.
All a bit rosy tinted for me.
Now where do the other 99% of people fit in?
And me ....and that damn cat....I've lived thru idealism, it sucks.
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Ben, and anyone else wavering, unsure.
With this thing, you need to believe and to commit. Because it's right. And because it's true. Because it makes sense.
Now I and many others could spend any amount of time you like giving you whatever reasons you need to convince yourself intellectually that it's right. But why waste that time?
To use an old phrase, you know in your water it's right. Trust your gut. Do the right thing.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick of living in fear, this constant nagging grinding fear of the future. Bollocks to that. We don't need to live in there. There are things we can do. So let's do them.
It's time to stand up and be counted.
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DCBCauchi, in reply to
I’ve lived thru idealism, it sucks.
I’ve lived through despair. That sucks.
I’m going to believe in something again. Something of our very own. Something more than just making paintings for others despairing.
If it sounds a bit idealistic, even a bit (which is somewhat scary) religious, so be it. I don't care. It's what makes sense.
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head 'em off at the impasse...
aporia is that similar to apiary
like our Beehive - full of buzz-words and presiding
over a state of puzzlement, doubt and confusion...
(with a lack of resources) -
Islander, in reply to
Because it visibly demonstrably hasn’t. They paint their pictures the same way. The same pictures. Tell the same stories.
Not quite, David – the Bradshaw paintings are not like so-called ‘traditional Aboriginal art’ but are quite like San art. Bradshaw paintings go back approx. 50-60,000 years BCE – and San, quite a lot older than that…
And there is no-one around now who can interpret Bradshaw paintings (well, last time I checked anyway.)
Annd, it has very recently been established (not beyond controversy however) that the first Australians were the first AMHs to leave Africa…
But I know you know all that-
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