Hard News: A few (more) words on The Hobbit
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Give us a clue. What aspects do you think I'm reading wrongly?
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And I suppose a related question - which parts did you find especially persuasive/accurate?
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I've onsent it to 'Public Address' -I'll wait & see what comes through-
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Isnt the conjunction of really wideranging happenstance events the whole refutation of 'boomerdom' the whole fucking point?
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
I've never made an argument for generational shaming, and indeed have umpteen times denied making it. If you could stop painting me with that brush and use the things that I actually say...
Bullshit Kyle. You simply lack the wit or the courage to own the moral implications of your highly loaded weaseling. I'm really rather past caring which it might be. No amount of intellectual vanity can grant anyone the right to have their opinions taken as unvarnished gospel.
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I'm sorry, I cannot see what our lives and world views have in common beside coincidence of birth year.
And coincidence is all those of us born after the war have in common.That's a stereotype?
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Something just occurred to me - the fact that baby boomers are copping so much crap recently is a sign that their hold on power if slipping. And one of the first things you do when you take power is to blame everything on your predecessor. Blaming them for looming crises etc is the perfect way of copping out of responsibility now.
To some extent my generation bears responsibility for the same crises. So what if property has gone nuts? We don't have to own it, there are affordable investments we could have instead. The expectation to make money from property comes partially from a sense of entitlement. I don't think the boomer generation were expecting what happened, their obsession with property came from their parents who had lived through the depression, and actually experienced or seen homelessness. Also, having a roof over your head was a much bigger proportion of the basic comforts expected in times past, whereas now we expect a lot more than that.
Also, I haven't really heard legions of X-Generationers or beyond demanding a return to 66% tax. If that happened, my income would halve, and I'd have to sell my house immediately to be able to afford to live.
The blame game isn't really helpful - I see it being lined up as an excuse to cut pensions. That might be necessary, but I don't think it's helpful to add a "moral" dimension to it, as though somehow it's baby boomer's chickens coming home to roost.
I do, however, think there's nothing wrong with the use of all that property to pay for aged medical care. If the state takes a lien out against their property, it's means the kids inherit less, sure, but that's vastly preferable, IMHO, to the kids being required to shell out of their own pockets or taxes for that care. If there is no property, then a welfare state should look after those oldies who've really got nothing.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
– the fact that baby boomers are copping so much crap recently is a sign that their hold on power if slipping.
That's an interesting take Ben. Blame aside, they (we?) have had a rather longer run at the top than previous generations, and possibly those now taking their places. In the mid 80s the Listener ran a cover story about the generational takeover of top positions, making a case that the low birthrates of the depression era meant that there simply wasn't enough mature talent to fill top positions. Beverley Wakem headed Radio NZ before she'd turned 40. While David Lange wasn't technically a "baby boomer", at 41 he was NZ's youngest 20th century PM.
BTW the worst thing that could happen here in the near future would be a resurgent Grey Power. Dog forbid.
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BTW the worst thing that could happen here in the near future would be a resurgent Grey Power.
I personally have $10 on Winston getting back into parliament in this year’s election.
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Blame aside, they (we?) have had a rather longer run at the top than previous generations, and possibly those now taking their places.
Could be, definitely the average lifespan increased a lot. But I think that the long run of the baby boomers is still trumped by the colossal fuck-ups of the two previous generations, with the war to end all war, the peace to end all peace, the depression, and then the real war to end all (world) war. Big ups for defeating fascism, but it was pretty touch and go, and it should never have got that bad.
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If the state takes a lien out against their property, it’s means the kids inherit less,
I think you’ll find something along these lines is already in place. If my experience with my Grandmother is typical. One thing Im not sure of, if it was driven by the rest home or the state.
Could be, definitely the average lifespan increased a lot.
I dont want to live much past 85. In fact if I had my way I'd choose my death date.
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Islander, in reply to
"...if I had my way, I'd choose my death date."
Ditto. I love life, but have no wish whatsoever to live into dotage.
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I love life, but have no wish whatsoever to live into dotage.
at least we survived the dot.comage...
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Jacqui Dunn, in reply to
I dont want to live much past 85.
Maybe you should wait until you get there. From the sounds of it, you're quite a way off.
Who knows, perhaps when we get there, we'll find that the secret of dotage is life/awareness in a different dimension? A real cosmic joke!
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Ditto. I love life, but have no wish whatsoever to live into dotage.
Therein lies the dilemma - it's when we slip into dotage that we lose the power to make such choices. Catch 22. Life is full of them.
I agree, generally. I'd rather go fast. But then again, we only have one life that we can be sure of. When the time comes, most people seem to want every last breath. Would the world ever seem so beautiful as when you knew it was your last moment? Great pain would surely lessen this appreciation, but even pain is a confirmation of life. It's a mystery and I doubt many people can really foretell their reactions.
I think you’ll find something along these lines is already in place. If my experience with my Grandmother is typical.
Mine too. I don't know the exact details, but it seems like a very practical solution.
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You simply lack the wit or the courage to own the moral implications of your highly loaded weaseling.
Having already asked you at least once not to make personal attacks against me, I won't bother responding further.
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a top illogical manifold no-braner...
Who knows, perhaps when we get there, we’ll find that the secret of dotage is life/awareness in a different dimension?
this could explain the dementia dimension ...
all the disorientation is caused by blood
crossing the brane-barrier, taking
all 5 senses into the fifth dimension -
andin, in reply to
Just thinking ahead Jacqui, and kicking against all the christian and other mystical bullshit we have constructed around death over the centuries.
I would like to be able to make that decision when it suits me, and not have medical staff trying to keep me alive in whatever state until my body gives up.we’ll find that the secret of dotage is life/awareness in a different dimension? A real cosmic joke!
Another cosmic joke? HA There are no secrets of awareness, different dimensions where all is revealed. I dont mean to sound harsh, but we have to trim back on the fantasy realms it makes for mental flab.
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I would like to be able to make that decision when it suits me, and not have medical staff trying to keep me alive in whatever state until my body gives up.
It's funny, nearly everyone I've ever spoken to about this feels the same way. But it's not a debate that's ever gone public in NZ, that I'm aware of. Too many taboos around it.
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Jacqui Dunn, in reply to
There are no secrets of awareness, different dimensions where all is revealed. I dont mean to sound harsh, but we have to trim back on the fantasy realms it makes for mental flab.
But, Andin, that's the point. You won't know until you're there! No fantasy really.
I do understand your view, though, re not wanting to be kept alive. My mother had a huge fear of lingering on, way past her time. I think it was based on seeing her mother, the survivor of a stroke that knocked out some of her ability to sort out right from wrong (although, mind, this is in the view of other people - not a good place to start) living for many years in a mental hospital. When Mum had a stroke, she survived about four hours. All her lights went out. Marvellous really. Way to go! And the lovely thing about it, which my brother witnessed, was that it was a HUGE joke! She laughed and laughed, quite oblivious to the nurses and doctors. She didn't share that joke, with anyone.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
I would like to be able to make that decision when it suits me, and not have medical staff trying to keep me alive in whatever state until my body gives up.
Having been with someone at their end this last November, I now realise how common it must be to have these decisions made for you, when you're no longer capable. As long as someone's able to be spoon-fed pureed food in the times they regain consciousness, care staff are very encouraging to family members who are willing to stick around and help out. It didn't register at first when they asked if I'd like the patient to be woken in order to be fed. I found myself saying, "Well, you're the experts," and "It seems a pity, they look so peaceful".
Of course it was seeking informed consent from the next of kin, and in my case it happened so casually and gently that I didn't initially twig to its significance. When someone's been diagnosed with a slow degenerative condition and has no quality of life left, such things as intravenous feeding seem pretty grotesque. It's then that you remember their wishes, the things they'd said back when they had their full faculties, like how they'd like to go when they're ready to go.
There are no secrets of awareness, different dimensions where all is revealed. I dont mean to sound harsh, but we have to trim back on the fantasy realms it makes for mental flab.
Go mentally buffed and toned into that great night? We should all be so lucky.
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But, Andin, that's the point. You won't know until you're there!
Yup, I think Occam's razor is taken too far. Just because you don't, and can't possibly, know about something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's just not a subject of scientific inquiry. It can only be speculated about.
But personally, my bet is on death being exactly as it seems from the outside - a ceasing to be, the disappearance of consciousness, rather like deep dreamless sleep with no waking. I expect I'll find out one day.
Edit: As will all of you. If you really exist - another great mystery, but one there is no way at all of knowing the answer to. Again, just because I can't possibly know, doesn't mean there isn't an answer, though.
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Jacqui Dunn, in reply to
I know we all will!
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If you die and then that's it awareness-wise you won't find anything out, arguably. It's difficult to experience not awakening.
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Yes, the experience of death could only describe the lead up to it. If the actual death itself is a state of no-awareness, then there's no real meaning to "what it feels like to be dead". If.
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