<To clarify: I didn't ever believe that assertion was true either. I have just been increasingly depressed by the meanspirited ways in which some people are expressing their disappointment with the result, and that one - that someone is willing to believe that graciousness in defeat is merely a matter of contractual obligation - was the final straw for me>

This stuff is horrid, but I'd question whether NZers really are any worse than other countries. Some of comment on this side of world both from journalists & joe public has been quite unbelievable in it's nastiness, and it's no better when they exit tournaments earl;y either.

I hope plenty do go out to welcome them home. Thinking of all the rugby I've watched over the last few years, we should be proud of them, one match doesn't make them failures imo.

>Actually, Stephen Jones is right, and we have to deal with it.

Having just read it, no he isn't.

We have to deal with defeat, but that man's bitterness towards anything to do with NZ & in particular rugby is simply bizarre.

I suppose it's predictable, but no less depressing if people are going to turn on Henry & the team. I seriously doubt a different approach to rotation or players in S14 would have made any difference. Those I talked to on the way back from Cardiff didn't seem of that view, they mostly seemed proud of team, gutted obviously & frustrated that teams of lesser ability march on, especially given their negative approach to the game (That NH negative spoiling approach certainly feeds into the way the game was reffed).

This All Black team have been a joy to watch, the manner of play & skill level have at times been breathtaking. Having watched the England backs look like a bunch of six year olds ineptly playing pass the parcel there seems no doubt we are the butt of some cosmic joke.

It's just one of those things I guess.

Living in London as i do, I've come to dread opening a newspaper when the ABs are over, as I know I'll have to read yet another tedious ilinformed rant about our PI players.

Trust me it's not just Stephen Jones, all four major national papers have been at it.

The saddest thing is it's been repeated so many times without challenge, it's basically accepted here as gospel. If you strike up a conversation with anyone in a pub about rugby, it's not long before you get the 'well they're not really NZers are they'. To be fair once you've explained things most people tend to be ok & even a bit embarassed, but it's still incredibly annoying.

I know loads of Kiwis have written to the papers with the facts so it's not merely ignorance, and I'm sure they're well aware what they're printing is nonsense but print it anyway. Sadly I doubt a trip to school in South Auckland or the like would change much.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at Hitchens not letting facts get in the way of his argument, but given I live only a few minutes walk from the Finsbury Park Mosque it's still annoying. The Finsbury Park he describes isn't recogniseable to me, or anyone else I've spoken to who's read the article. I would imagine any part of London for someone of his age would have change considerably since their youth.

Whilst it can't be denied that some considerably unplesant people were associated with that Mosque, what he fails to mention is it closed for sometime in very public circumstances 2-3 years ago in an attempt to rid it of the extremists, & quite how it is anyway tied to atmosphere in the wider community is beyond me.

Hitchens claims to be in favour of multiculturalism, but of those who've been bandying about the 'Londonistan' tag he'd be pretty much alone. His brother, Melanie Phillips, Richard Littlejohn amongst others have quite clearly used it as a trojan horse for an attack on multiculralism & immigration in general. Whatever his claims about his own position the picture he tries to pain of cricket & fish & chips turning into down town Kabul, is in keeping with that painted by the others I've mentioned, it's both distorted, dangerous & entirely counterproductive. Yes Britain has produced home grown extremists, but to imply that they're anything but a tiny minority is nonsense.

Right next to Finsbury Park & other areas in the region with sizeable muslim communities is Stamford Hill, home to third largest Orthodox Jewish community in the world. The communties live peacefully side by side, community leaders from both regaurly meet to try & improve relations. This is the London most Londoners would recognise, people simply getting on with their lives, & one you would imagine that those trying to defeat the extremist would be trying to foster rather than pushing an agenda likely to alienate sections of the community even more.

Maori need to let go of the idea that negotiation and ‘partnership’ with the Crown is the only viable path to tino rangatiratnga and mana motuhake. As a keen history pupil I have no faith in the Crown whatsoever as a true and honest Treaty partner. Instead Maori should get real and focus on rebuilding strategic political and economic alliances with workers, urban liberals, and with building new alliances with ethnic minorities, especially with the Austronesian and Asian diaspora in Aotearoa.

Thanks for the interesting post.

Like others would be interested in you expanding n your views reagrding the 'political relationships' you talk about, especially in light of your comment that Maori need to

<stop looking so much to the Treaty and the false promises of official Bi-culturalism. >

What practical form would you like to see these 'political realtionships' take if they're not to be based on Crown/treaty bi cultralism.

I also found the longer paragraph I quoted particuarly interesting, and again would be interested in hearing you expand on the form you could see these alliances talking.