Posts by Matthew Poole
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"A court may order disclosure of transaction details whether they have been recorded or not, although this rarely occurs."
Confirming my suspicion that it would be unlikely for the police to get access to Dunne-Powell's medical records. So unless she complains, the cops will probably have to do it without the benefit of those documents. Making it that much harder, since so much of the potential evidence is hearsay. "She told me that the doctor told her that..."
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I'm not sure why, then, a divergence into women's domestic violence is warranted
It wasn't intentional. I observed that the default situation is to take the man away when the police are called to DV incidents, despite strong evidence that such a position is unjust. I was asked to support the assertion of evidence, and got countered by people confirming that men put women in hospital or on the slab far, far more often than is the reverse.
It has the effect of minimising the seriousness of this case, whether or not that is the intention of those wanting to go there.
Which is my other reason for dropping it. Wider societal inequities have no bearing on what happened here. Nothing could justify Veitch's putting her in a wheelchair.
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He's removed becuase no matter who started it, he's more likely to cause serious physical harm to the other person.
Oh, and thanks for completely proving the point I was trying to make. I wasn't attempting to justify DV, or to reinterpret that statistics about who injures who more. I was pointing out that the default position is that the man gets dragged away because he's the man, not because of any actual evidence that he's done anything wrong.
I'll just leave this topic alone, now. I'm sure that everyone's now convinced that I support DV, which wasn't my intention.
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He's removed becuase no matter who started it, he's more likely to cause serious physical harm to the other person.
In other words, he's guilty (and punished, because people don't sleep care of the police for the hell of it) because he's male. Taking her away would achieve the same end result, of separating the parties and ensuring that things don't escalate to serious injury or worse. So why is he the one who has to go even if she started it?
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you might like to take a look at it before going to much further down the "but women are violent too" line.
*sigh*
If the only measures that count are serious injury or death, then of course men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators. But if it's who should be hauled away for the night because a couple were scrapping, neither's injured, and the cops got called, the default position should not be to drag away the male just because he's the male.
If there's injury, by all means, though I have heard anecdotally of men who got pushed down stairs by their unharmed partner who still got to spend the night in a cell. -
the greater average size and strength of men and their greater aggressiveness means that a man’s punch will probably produce more pain, injury and harm than a punch by a woman
That's the kicker. Men are constrained in how they can respond to being attacked by their partner, because of their greater physical strength. I certainly don't dispute that more of the victims of DV who need to seek medical (or worse!) attention are female.
What I'm disputing is that it's always the men hitting the women that leads to the police being called. Remember that a lot of the police incidents of DV don't lead to medical attention. Two people are screaming and throwing stuff, and a neighbour gets worried and calls the cops. The man gets carted off because, well, he's the man. No physical injury of great consequence to either side, but he's guilty because he has a penis. -
Do you have links for that?
Surely do, and you can find plenty by Googling for things like "domestic violence initiator statistics".
http://www.abs-comptech.com/domestic.html
http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-6.htm
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/fam27.htm
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/familyviolence/html/mlintima_e.htmlAnd the biggie:
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
SUMMARY: This bibliography examines 219 scholarly investigations: 170 empirical studies and 49 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 221,300. -
It's hard to blame the police, because they were doing what is the right thing in the majority of cases in taking the complainant at her word, but it's horrible for the man involved.
But is it the right thing in the majority of cases? There's very solid empirical evidence that domestic violence isn't even close to a one-way street.
Assuming the stats are right that it's about 50:50 on who starts it, and more than one study has said that it's around that level, it's not unreasonable to believe that quite a few DV incidents that end up with him spending the night behind bars start with her hitting him.In fact (hazy recollections and my Google foo isn't quite helping me right now) didn't the Dunedin Longitudinal Study show that women are about as likely to be physically violent toward their partner as men are?
It's not OK for either side! Which is something that some people lose sight of in their rush to vilify men who do.
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Ross over in Kiwiblogland, in the tui thread, is suggesting Veitch might have been the assaulted party & wondering why we're not villifying the aggressive woman in the wheelchair.
Nobody has it coming to end up in a wheelchair. If he's strong enough to break her back, he's strong enough to restrain her without causing serious, long-term injuries.
As pissed off as I get with the suggestion that men have no right to defend themselves if their female partner attacks, it's impossible to excuse Veitch's actions in any circumstances.
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It was a change in police policy in the early 1990s to always arrest the offender (where it was immediately clear who the offender was) when they attend a domestic violence situation.
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More importantly though it was a practical purpose. It got the offender out of the house for 24 hours at leastThese days, though, you can insert "male" in place of "offender". Plenty of anecdotes out there from guys who spent a night in the cells after being attacked by their female partner. It's going to take another big culture change before "offender" is the appropriate word to use.