Posts by Kirsten Brethouwer
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For reasons largely of cost, a number of European countries are moving towards a register-based approach; buttressed, in some cases, by sampling. (I could be wrong, but I can't see that any country is conducting the exercise solely through sample surveying.)
Register-based approaches require the state to keep and hold an enormous amount of data and, as such, tend to be employed in the nanniest of nanny states.and from your dutch 'in my country'-correspondent: A number of European countries are not so much moving towards, but have traditionally kept registers and that practice hardly gets questioned. You're registered with the local council and when you move to another town you have to deregister at your old place and go in and register at your new council office. When you leave the country you actually have to deregister locally and then get kept in a national database in The Hague. They also register your religious orientation (but you're not forced to give it) and will inform your church when you're moving town. It will quickly make those people who may feel christian inclined but don't want to give the church any money revert to godlessness.
It maybe the nanniest of nanny states but they do get good stats. Census seems to whip up a whole lot more emotional media crap every time it comes around than continuous data keeping. -
benwilson:
yip i am an old hippie (quite young still actually) (and quite welldressed for a hippie) (oh and i read the economist) (do i still qualify?) and i know from experience the whole argument that it's impractical in a country like nz not to be able to drive and i know how much it hurts to climb a hill on a bike in auckland AND on waiheke.I cycled 20 (flat) k's to school to AND fro all through my teenage years in holland RAIN or shine (like we say, i'm not made out of sugar huh) and that was only 15 years ago my dear.
and i wish i'd feel as safe as an amsterdam mum with a child on the front and the back of my bike on waiheke windy roads, and i do not.Still when you're 19 you can cope with some adversity right?
Rogerd i'm not saying get fucked to taranaki kids. I'm saying find another way. My five year old would like to drive a car so he can go see his friends when he wants to but that doesn't mean i let him. And i don't think society should hand him the right to do it until he's deemed grown up enough to make rational decisions re, amongst other things, speed, friends an alcohol. Cars are just too big to be toys.Still no solution for the 20 and 22 year old that Russel refers to, but if the car was less part of youth culture, maybe the excesses would be less as well.
Nobody Important: I know that the NZ driver laws are predicated on the idea of the 15 year old farm hand on the rural road, which I think is still the case (sorry for riding on the dutch comparison, i'm really not always that nationalistic) for 16year old farmhands and children of farmers in Holland, but they get that exemption, for the tractor during daylight hours. To me it just looks like that in NZ that has set the precedent for demanding that teenagers own their own vehicle to get to jobs/schools/uni and now all of a sudden life is impossible for a teenager without a car. If they were all in the same boat however i'm sure they'd find a way to make life meaningful and fun without a car and all sorts of initiatives would be undertaken for kids to be able to get to where they need to. Maybe public transport might improve even because there is all of a sudden a 'demand'.
And re: drinking age. I don't think the distinction between 'bottle stores' and being served alcohol is made in Holland. All i know is that I could buy alchohol as a 16 year old there, both from a pub and from a store selling liquor.
Repeating that life is impossible without a car in New Zealand and therefore pouring more funds into roads, roads and roads is not really going to bring about any change. In fact the 'safer' the roads the faster people go, and as they say.. the bigger the mess..
Bring back rail i'd say.And Benwilson, for waiheke, buses of which the exhaust doesn't blacken your lungs, go more frequent and go straight to that ferry would actually get used even more then the ones we have now, i think.
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Why do we put kids in cars at all?
Here's what you do: You don't give kids drivers licences until they're at least 19. Their brains are not fully grown, cars are simply too dangerous for them. sorry this is the annoying euro perspective but WHERE I COME FROM (the netherlands) the drinking age is 16 but you don't get behind the wheel until your 19. (and then it's often too expensive to have a car anyway so most people don't get their licence until they're in their twenties).
I agree with Russel that for boy racers the alcohol is maybe not the biggest factor, but i'd rather have them go on an alcohol binge and then having to walk or take a taxi home at the age of 18 then have street races at any time of day or night, sober or drunk.
i really really mean it. All that crap about parents should be tough blahblah, there's enough evidence to support that it's simply not the right time in your life to be doing something so risky as driving a car, so the government should make it easy for parents and say, kids are not allowed to drive one. Society and infrastructure will adjust to that i'm sure. Aren't we trying to get people out of cars anyway? And to carpool and use public transport?In Holland the road toll is the same in absolute terms as New Zealand, but it's the size of Canterbury and we have 16 million people. The risks we take with cars in New Zealand are ridiculous and the cost to society too high for any demographic. Cars have no place in the life of a teenager, and we don't trust them to make rational decisions regarding alcohol so why do we trust them to make rational decisions regarding the deadly things that cars are. Cars are too cheap here and it's too easy to get them at a too young age.
I'm sure legislation can bring about a cultural change. No faffing around with by laws and nonsense about the drinking age. It's the cars that kill. -
i'm with you all the way Anke. My parents left New Zealand with me and my brother in 1977 because they couldn't stand the physical punishment common place in the primary school my brother (then 6) was attending. You'd get strapped, and not just on the spot, no you'd wait until friday assembly and get strapped in front of the rest of the school...
So I grew up in Holland, where they attitude is to physical punishment is very similar to what you described about Germany. There's no way the state would sanction it. We talked surprised and mockingly about the anglo-saxon approach to their own children.
Now i'm back living here and have two kiwi born children of my own.. because i thought it would be such a wonderful place to bring up kids (and times have changed i thought). And now i know how exasperating it sometimes can be, dealing with these irrational but wonderful creatures. But nothing, nothing in my experience makes me feel that my right to hurt my children should be protected. My parenting is not perfect and no parent is. We're also sometimes irrational and do things we regret. But if a parent knows what the rules are, they can live up to them. Isn't it just like children?
The rules are not hitting.
I feel like i'm talking to my 4 year old!
So make the law. then parents know what the rules are.
they'll deal with it. just like the kids do.
anyway. preaching to the converted here -
can't make it still will be trying to make my way back from Womad with the tribes, but wouldn't mind if there's another way for me to show my (financial) support.