Posts by A S
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Now if I was a complete cynic, would it be mad to suggest the potential for the accused to have leaked this information?
After all, if they could potentially achieve a mis-trial, wouldn't it be worth their while to flick this info to the DP?
I'm taking the mickey with these statements, but it is an interesting flip on the evil police leakers argument that seems to be bandied about a bit here today.
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dubmugga
If you're going to critique a comment, at least try to include the whole of it, rather than selectively quoting out of context.
Tame is to my mind first and foremost an artist. Most artists i know especially the good ones are loaded with baggage, very self centred and court publicity. It's his nature to be that way and I respect him for it.
You seem to indicate your respect from someone who has quite probably shafted his community in terms of resources, assistance and any chance of getting ahead, because of his idiocy. Are you really saying that?!
If you were misquoting someone else to talk about a comment I made earlier about stereotypes, then I hate to disillusion you, you are entirely wrong on every count.
Maybe you should take a deep breath before posting sometimes.
;)
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Still. It will be interesting to see if all of Peter Williams comments and accusations make it into court and we see some police heads on the block (if half of his accusations hold up) or not (if none do).
Like both extremes of the discussion to date, don't expect any reasoned or rational analysis from Peter Williams. He will be coming at this whole thing from a particular perspective, any making his clients look good, while making the police look bad will be paramount.
Sad but true. And I'd hate for us to think that there was actually some neutral body making rational calls on this somewhere after all....
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I think Shane Jones was implying that he was a pretender to leadership within Tuhoe without the necessary support to really be it.
I don't generally agree with Shane on much, but he did strike something of a chord there. The ideology of Tame Iti does seem to be more about getting himself on TV, than working for the betterment of his people...
Those who will suffer most from this will be the people around that area who will now be deemed to be a risk coming into election year so watch all their funding dry up, watch how industry will stay well away from the area, which won't do anything to fix the employment problem, and watch how Maori throughout NZ will be looked at sideways from now by other NZers and by other Maori.
Thanks very much Tame Iti!! Thanks for thinking about the rest of us.
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Shep,
Got to disagree with you on the talk at gun clubs line. I can honestly say that I have never heard anyone at a range day or competition talk about shooting the Prime Minister or leader of the opposition, nor have I ever heard them talk about killing people to get used to the idea, or to plot to harm to the general population, or to talk of attacking various targets.
And if anyone had said anything anywhere near that stupid, they would be reported to the Police, who would ask very serious questions about whether or not they should be allowed to possess a gun license.
I respectfully suggest that maligning people based on what appears to be something of a stereotype is somewhat unhelpful.
If the things we've read today is common BS talk in your circle, I'd try to keep better company....
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Rich
My point is that while deeply unpleasant, that doesn't make them part of a Terrorist War On Civilisation (TM). It doesn't mean that we have to abandon our liberties. It doesn't mean we should just shut up and be thankful that our great and good government is here to protect us from these nasty people.
So can we take it that means that when (because it will happen) everyone starts jumping on the lets ban guns bandwagon after all of this, you will come out and stand up for those firearms owners who have obeyed the law, and who will be the ones who are ultimately punished through loss of their liberties for the actions of this particular bunch of muppets?
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Actually, as long as we're going for ambitious rationalisations: knowing the temperament of certain people, perhaps they knew they were being monitored and delighted in saying outrageous things to tweak the listeners.
that's what i figure with half of it , but well to me that's just being plain stupid.
Perhaps to take a cynical view, it is probably a claim I would frantically trying to convince all and sundry of if I was facing these charges.....
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There seem to be an awful lot of misconceptions about what goes on at gun clubs about the country. Would it hurt to let reality intrude on the making shit up session to point out that as you would quite rightly expect, gun clubs and gun ranges are very, very serious places because a) you're dealing with dangerous things, and b) most firearms license holders are very well aware that their sport and hobby is seen as odd or sinister by many, who know nothing about what they do aside from what they hear from various bodies with agendas to push.
This awareness means they collectively take great pains not to do anything that would give anyone reason to further restrict their sport. Perhaps we should stop quoting John Minto on the "nothing different to what you'd hear at any gunclub" BS. Based on his statements to date, he doesn't strike me as the type to let fact or reality stand in the way of a gross generalisation.
Isn't it standard practise in their training to be shown and discuss how to kill people ? So maybe a few of them get together in the weekends get on the piss and get their boy toys out. Would you reall expect them to get shunted from the force ?
Perhaps it would be useful to note here that the Police do not have carte blanche to carry guns wherever they like. They may only draw firearms in the course of their duty, as their legal ability to use them relates only to police duty. Any police officer wishing to use firearms outside their course of duty must hold a firearms license just like anybody else.
So lets recap:
Nutbars threatening to kill people, with illegal guns, grenade launchers and improvised explosive devices - bad and illegal;
People who own firearms, who obey the law and get misrepresented frequently - possibly not to your taste, but legal and who appear to have a much greater respect for the law than the activist community by the looks of it; and
Police outside of duty cannot legally play with 'boytoys' unless they are licensed just like anyone else to do so. And if they were saying things that can only be described at its most charitable as moronic, then quite frankly I would be demanding they were sacked and charged AS WOULD the vast majority of NZers.
Lets try not to make too much shit up to pander to our pre-conceived state - bad, freedom fighter - good preferences shall we.
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What do you think the underlying issues are? Confused and crazy and violent and shocking as it all is, there is a festering issue there. This must be something to do with Tuhoe's valid sense of injustice about land loss which has somehow been distorted into this dangerous nonsense.
Actually, Russell linked to an article at the end of the This Just In thread, which discusses a sense of disquiet amongst many Tuhoe about what has been going on.
It is pretty important to remember that many hapu and iwi throughout NZ have experienced some pretty gross injustices. They don't run off and play wannabe guerilla as part of their indigenous nation fantasy though...
There is a role for all of NZ to assist Maori (not just hapu and iwi) to achieve their goals, but those goals have to be positive goals that are pursued in a positive way.
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I agree with you Russell, I just didn't manage to write it particularly clearly. I fell into the trap that other posters have also fallen into referring to Tuhoe as a homogeneous entity, which isn't correct. I'll be more careful in future.
It is a shame this more moderate message doesn't make it into the mainstream consciousness, I could more easily support a desire for realising local goals that focus on positives.
It really is a shame that so many of those claiming to represent Tuhoe cannot bear in mind the impact their actions have on the rest of their iwi, and on the way all Maori will be perceived after all of this comes to rest (and I also include the way many Maori are likely to look at each other after this).