Posts by martinb
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To get elected you've got to win your wing and take them with you toward the centre. The right does this- promises of dead rats to be swallowed for now, and that slash and burn is on the way soon. There is room for all kinds of far out right wing nuttery within the Tory/National parties.
No one hates the left it seems more than the Labour Party. The left and the centre-left, or the working class and the liberals need to work together if they want to change the government. There is clearly an international dissatisfaction with TINA and let 'free trade' provide, so how do you sell and prepare for the challenges of now and 10-15 years in the future?
In many cases as well, and especially so for Corbyn it would seem, old baggage gets in the way of current need.
It's a bit like the Turkish astronomer in the Little Prince who has to dress up in a suit for people to take his discovery seriously. In NZ the Nats replaced Brash with Key. The Greens have replaced one protesty white male who was often suited, with another ex-banker white male who always has a short back and sides and is clean shaven. I don't think the message of either changed or has changed substantially.
There has been no clear answer to the Sanders/Corbyn/Trump/Le Pen rumbles, but it is clear that the status quo is broken for many and that more status quo is not the likely to satisfy.
The electoral system fails to adequately express the polity, and makes the politicians unresponsive to the voters. Perhaps?
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Speaker: Britain: the crisis isn't…, in reply to Rich of Observationz,
Wow, actually finally read the your Irish post all the way to the bottom.
Perhaps the ultimate take on this is that English exceptionalism and arrogance is about to over-balance and take the whole thing down to the depths of irrelevance, in a world where China, Russia, Brazil and India are emerging economies and powers to whom a small rock off Europe is as inconsequential as it has been most of its history.
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Dude posted 3 times now- please, please don’t mention the war or abstaining on welfare capping or …
Also I saw George Monbiot headbut a guy in the face. He’s a violent psycho, like most of Corbyn’s supporters. And what is Corbyn doing to stop that? The Monbiots of this world assaulting folk in the high street? Nothing, he hasn’t said anything.
Monbiot's opening salvo:
Those who tolerated anything the Labour party did under Blair tolerate nothing under Corbyn. Those who insisted that we should vote Labour at any cost turn their backs as it seeks to recover its principles.
They proclaimed undying loyalty when the party stood for the creeping privatisation of the NHS, the abandonment of the biggest corruption case in British history, the collapse of Britain’s social housing programme, bans on peaceful protest, detention without trial, the kidnap and torture of innocent people and an illegal war in which hundreds of thousands died. They proclaim disenchantment now that it calls for the protection of the poor, the containment of the rich and the peaceful resolution of conflict.
Those who insisted that William Hague, Michael Howard and David Cameron presented an existential threat remain silent as Labour confronts a Conservative leader who makes her predecessors look like socialists.
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It was interesting to hear Mike Moore talk about Anderton as our Benn. It was also handy that he was able to operate as a party apart, and a yet play a crucial part. Wasn’t it Deputy PM? And a top ranking in cabinet?
Corbyn is unable to do that in the current UK electoral system and there is certainly no Helen Clark of Britain (thus far or Michael Cullen for that matter) looking to lead and bridge the divide between the old left, and current factions.
The British electoral system has its benefits. Local MPs and local responsibilities. But it seems also intransigent and unable to provide such an ‘elegant solution’ as creating a left party outside Labour that could express its own personality, yet work so closely with it when required. No one is taken for granted and no one splits the vote.
Though I guess there is a lot of different takes on the Alliance years too…!
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If he's so terrible, just roll him.
Still- remember "He and hardcore supporters carry most of the blame for Labour’s current predicament."
That's right, I'm sure. Two terrible election losses. The Scottish independence referendum and the terrible joint campaign with the Tories which has wiped out the Scottish seats.
The leadership campaign Corbyn ran in order to give a bit of balance, cos it was kind of his turn. You know- to remind people that the UK that once they had had different values than punish the poor. He didn't mean to win that either.
This is another diatribe low on humility, high on how the party is being vicitimised by Corbyn. Not sure if this is the Mail, the Telegraph or the Guardian.
In any case, I did get a lot of references to Sinn Fein in the other thread when I posted this:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/25/vote-labour-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-mayand no engagement with it.
There's certainly a lot of paid P.R. around trying to sink Corbyn and this little, unscripted insurrection.
There is a big problem in Labour for sure. Mr Miller and his ilk seem to suggest...well again, nothing. At least Hillary had an agenda and a platform.
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So I'll put Neill down for TLDr...
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From the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/25/vote-labour-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-mayMombiot pays out Blairite hypocrisy in rather compelling terms
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and in France the choice seems remarkably similar- an ex-banker, friend to everyone, stands for nothing or Marianne le Pen.
And isn't the developed world's working class issue that most of the manufacturing jobs have moved to China and poorer/low-cost nations, and mechanisation? Without any care to what might happen to the people who used to work?
Feel like there needs to be an update to the musical Oklahoma for these modern times: the liberal and the leftie should be friends! God forbid the leftie wants to drive though, amirite?
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Speaker: The Brexlection, in reply to Tom Semmens,
Bingo for me.
The Labour Party is in disarray because Tony Blair thinks he's still prime minister and that there can not be any left wing faction. I can't think of any serious former NZ PM so keen to be involved in current politics. They have let go.
Corbyn picked up a swell of enthused and energised youngsters. If Labour had any serious politicians, rather than do everything in their power to destroy his candidacy they would have allied with him, rather than throw their toys from the cot. A government by cabinet is not a presidency. The PM doesn't do everything.
This is not the days of the closed shop, it is the days of Bernie Sanders, Brexit and Trump. Corbyn was made to fight the good fight here, but not alone. The party have failed their new generation, through arrogance and ideological blindness.
Corbyn could be the right answer. Or could have been.
Yet the left is a bigger worry than the Tories. And a bigger worry than Brexit. Which is why Labour is failing.
All these clever Blairites who once won some elections quite some time ago are still looking at their black and white photos of past glories. For starters they have lost 2 or 3 or how ever many leadership elections within their own party. THEY CAN NOT CONVINCE THEIR OWN PARTY. Yet, they insist it be done and done until the party does it right.
So yes, in terms of hubris and arrogance, they are winning unparalleled.
Tom Watson. I wonder what his legacy will be. A man who could have bridged the divide, but didn't really want to perhaps?
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what will Labour do to help call centre operators who have lost their positions as a result of this new automation?