Posts by Simon Fraser
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And if you read the Kiwiblog post, you will know that we have a quota of how many PIs we have to bring into the country. Labour relaxed the standards in 2004 because we weren't bringing enough in.
So, we're not treating all people from all countries fairly: we're being BIASED TOWARDS Pacific Islanders. So you can stop going on about racism.
If we have this unfair quota, unfair in your fullas' favour, we should be able to question - at least - whether the quota needs to be reduced, or the standards need to be higher.
But you guys don't like debate, you like playing the victim.
It's what Tammy Bruce called The Misery Merchants in The New Thought Police. People actually make a living out of playing the racial discrimation card.
Good reason to keep finding racism where it's not, otherwise their careers would come to an end.
I bet you didn't even know about the quota.
Ignorance is rife in NZ. So are personal attacks on anyone who challenges the status quo.
Here, as in the USA, people are made to fear cries of racism and fascism if they merely dare to think a bad thought about brown people.
There are many of us who are not racists, who get repeatedly told we are and we just don't know it.
Debate the immigration quotas, we should. Attacking a person personally for saying something we don't like is poor debating form.
Dub - by your logic, it should be okay for me to insult Pacific people for having this quota in the first place, and for, as you said yourself, wanting to culturally colonise me.
But unlike you, I will refrain, because, unlike you, I can get along with people no matter where they're from.
Hassling someone for what race they were born into is disgusting, and in fact, is racism. And you think it is okay.
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Just so you guys know, there is a mass of people who think what I think.
" think that this shows the worst aspect of political correctness: the attempt to kill an argument or discussion by the use of labelling, rather than attempting to engage in debate. Having people write off research on the basis that they don’t like the conclusions is completely dishonest, and will only result in a backlash at a later time. Similarly, remember that guy who published research challenging the numbers of Jewish dead during the Holocaust - there was no debate of the research, only the fact that he dared to challange the accepted wisdom. While it might be nausiating for those close to the subject, I believe that the only good way to deal with research or an argument that somebody finds unacceptable is to engage the debate with opposing arguments and research. The result of not doing this will be long-term resentment by people that would otherwise accept a reasonable rebuttal."
From MarkS on
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/05/pacific_island_immigration.html#comment-453647Au revoir
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Dub - didn't Public Enemy say that?
I heard they apologised for it years later; realised they were too harsh on him.
You fellas havea good time insulting white people while attacking them for daring to challenge brown people.
Peace out.
PS - if you were the colonisers, I think you'd be worse.
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Jackie - so who are you prejudiced against?
It seems you can't go and defend a guy for saying we should not keep bringing people into the country who have no intention of working or skills, without being called a racist.You people ban anyone saying anything critical of Polynesians, yet you label all white people Colonial Scum.
Reverse racism anyone?
And Sofie - who ever suggested we not have a variety of cultures on our country? It's not the same thing to say that we should have a right to choose who comes into the country so that we actually gain from them joining us, rather than have them pull us down.
Thus, the criteria for entry would be skills and intention to work, not race.
It's easier to call someone racist or un-PC, that way you don't have to debate the details.
So here's a taste of your own medicine: stop being so politically correct and look at reality.
If someone ever said we should not allow a certain race into the country, I did not hear it said.
If they did say it, I would at least want to know why. e.g., maybe 100 % of that race are cannibals or something. That would then be reasonable. This was a hypothetical statement, for those who don't know what that means, look it up.
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"you insist on, respectively, calling one of the greatest European thinkers of the last millenium some academically entrenched Euro guy, and Poms."
Sorry, I meant at the end... and calling the English Poms.
I am not a Pom any way. I was born here. so were my last five generations.
I am as indigenous as you.
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Dubmugga and Cheyenne,
While you spout anti-racist rhetoric, you insist on, respectively, calling one of the greatest European thinkers of the last millenium some academically entrenched Euro guy, and Poms.
Should we be calling Samoans Fobs? I don't talk like that, why do you?
I wonder who the racists are here. Really.
Cheyenne, once again, I said: let's forget the race issue, and agree that we should restrict immigration to NZ by asking that only people who are here to contribute, rather than bludge, enter. Whether they be Poms, Fobs, or whatever.
Let go of your precious racial persecution complex, you racist.
I have worked, lived and been friends with many people of many races, creeds, ages and orientations; so can't be called prejudiced.
I don't want to see the country brought down by poor immigration policy, especially when the most educated and highest contributors generally leave for a while or for good.
Drop the race card.
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Sacha - Doesn't he go after the Pacific migrants because they are causing the drain on society?
Or are the Asian migrants on the dole too?
Dub - not a rich people's playground, just a healthy economy.
So you've fallen for relativism. Kant's theory of Universal Law says that if something is right for one person, it is right for everyone else, and vice versa. That's the only rational basis for morality.
So you condone cannibalism. Also, you can't criticise female circumcision, sati, relegating women to the house and veil; and you can't criticise imperialism.
Hey, it's what my culture does man.
You should read Tim Flannery's The Future Eaters. He's balanced. All human beings, upon finding a new land (before other humans found it) wrecked the place. They wiped out many species of animal and damaged the ecosystem. And when there is a second-wave of colonisation, like in NZ and Australia, the second lot do even worse damage. We should have listened to your ideas about eco-management.
We can all help each other, if we listen to each other.
But relativism won't help you man.
That just lets you sit back while a guy beats his wife and say, 'It's his culture. They're stricter than us."
Only Universalism could lead to the abolition of slavery, the end of witch hunts, the emancipation of women and of colonised peoples.
If we were all bound to follow our own cultures, we'd all still be doing lots of stupid stuff.
I don't think it's great what the West are doing.
I do think that all people need to work together to form good economies, look after the planet, and more.
And yes, it is okay to tell another culture that cannabilism and slavery are morally indefensible.
Rise to the objective seat, bro.
Or be doomed to do whatever your heritage dictates.
Free mind or slave of customs, take your pick.
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Three replies:
Cheyenne: I just heard about this issue today when Kim Hill interviewed him on National Radio. However, do I need to prove to you there are lots of unemployed people, gangs and drug-abusers in South Auckland? If so, I can probably dig up some proof. I thought it was common knowledge. If Clydesdale is trying to suggest we need to address our immigration policy based on people's skills (not race), he may have a point. Silly that people are calling him a racist. I am sure his criteria for who should be allowed to move here is not a race-based criteria. No one's that daft anymore.
Sacha - See above answer.
Dubmugga - your cultural relativism has no place here. Economy is is a Western value, it is life itself. It is how we stay alive, providing food and shelter, etc for ourselves and our families.Despite your clap-trap about the Maori being ripped off, even though we saved them from cannabalism since they wiped out so many species of animals before Europeans got here, it affects you and me the same if we have to prop up people who come here with no intention to work.
In answer to your sarcastic question: no we do not put a question on the form, "Are you lazy?"
We ask, "What skills do you have?" If we don't need their skills, we already know there is no work for them here, then we say, "No thanks."
Doesn't the United States do that?
Why are you happy for people to come here just to live off your taxes? Or don't you pay them?
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And Jackie, in response,
I am not a racist.
Many of you on this forum are decying Clydesdale as being racist, however, a country that wants to have a good economy should limit the amount of people moving here to bludge.
If they plan to work, then great.
You're all so confounded by the racial issue you can't see past your own noses.
It's not about race; it's about not letting people rip you off. Wherever they're from.
And my comments about P and gangs is not a racial one. The fact that South Auckland has the worst crime rate in the country has nothing to do with the fact that you like your job and the kids you teach.
Facts speak louder than the thought police.
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"yeah we didn't have dole back in the day but if you gonna give out money for lying around doing fuck all we're gonna take it. We aint stupid."
I think that was Clydesdale's point.
Thanks for the confirmation.
It is bad for the country to import thousands of bludgers.
It should be you have to have skills to offer, or you can stay where you are. The only exception being refugees. We've got to help people in need.
We just shouldn't spoon-feed layabouts.
And no, it is not a racial thing. We should treat everyone by the same standards. Lazy people from all races and creeds who think they can move here then just bludge off the country should be told to stay put.
Then we can at least only have our own lazy people to complain about.
This is not a racial issue, stop making it one dub.