Speaker: To Smock is to Love
124 Responses
First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 Newer→ Last
-
Good attempt Anke :
“But maybe that's just another one of those optical delusions I've been having lately.”One question please about the nanny state utopian government you seem to support.
All this concern about the plight of vulnerable children by a government that has twice voted at United Nation’s level not to support the equal status of mothers and fathers? Surely it would be in the child’s best interests to treat parental genders the same! It’s makes the concern for spanking the children seem rather meaningless? Equal = remember that word at school? Yeah right!
Do you think a socialist contagious conscience could give the honest answer? Thought not – welcome to reality as the Labour/Green social engineering brigade is being exposed, as foolish making no sense ogresses.
-
good to see d4j bringing some rational reasoned argument to the debate.
-
Thank you Tony , yes these people are blind to the truth that this government is the most family unfriendly in our short history .
The behaviour of Clark , Bradford , Maori Party , Media etc etc.. is beyond belief . They think they can fix child abuse overnight by signing a bill of bullshit . This government is incapable of providing any practical solutions to avoid child abuse , however they enjoy creating fatherlessness which promotes child abuse !!! Go figure because I don't understand this nonsensical totalitarian nutbar government .
-
enjoy creating fatherlessness... nonsensical...nutbar...mmmm.
I see Jim Mora was back on form yesterday with Gary McCormack on the panel. What a veritable storm of ignorance they managed to whip up although i gather they received a bit of flak from listeners for it.
Among the treasures were "but will i get arrested if i smack my naughty child in the supermarket" and this gem from McCormack "removing s59 is inhumane because it fails to recognize the humanity of parents". Duh? -
Wow! Remarkable news on a late, late compromise ...
-
yeah, a get out of jail free card for National - having all those fundies lining up behind them was getting a bit uncomfortable i'd say.
of course the police discretion clause is a bit of a sop considering they always had, and have always exercised it in such cases anyway.
ho hum so it goes. -
RE: Late-breaking compromise on Bradford's bill...
Actually I think this is very good news! The fact that National, Labour, The Greens and United Future have been able to work out this compromise underlines the fact that (nearly) all of our politicians are well-intentioned on the subject of protecting children. Well done the politicians! (And I don't say that very often.)
Rather gives me hope for the parliamentary process...
-
it's certainly really good news for National, because despite opposing this and disinformaing the public every step of the way, they can now look caring and 'sensible' all thanks to the insertion of an imaginary amendment that changes nothing.
-
Riddley
I disagree. To the wider (non-political junkie) public, the impression will be of the bill passing, Sue Bradford celebrating, and National supporting her. Labour and the Greens haven't lost more than they already had - but National may have done.
There will be anger on the conservative/religious right. Their vehicle was the Christian Coalition in 1996, United Future 2002, and National in 2005. It looks like they'll be needing a new one.
-
well i hope you're right simon.
i think it will score points for National with the ill-informed middle vote (their primary target) but i take your point that the religious farther right will probably be pissed - although as i said earlier i think National will be somewhat glad to be rid of them anyway. -
....a government that has twice voted at United Nation’s level not to support the equal status of mothers and fathers
And just what laws or resolutions were they voting on?
-
Thank you Tony , yes these people are blind to the truth that this government is the most family unfriendly in our short history .
Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
-
Wonder how much Katherine Rich had to do with swinging this? Not a fan of her public persona, but her mana went up when she was "fired" after Orewa II for disagreeing with Brash. And (for me) it's climbed again this season, as she held out for principle against what must've been some strong caucus pressure. The other bill supporters who caved- and now have to vote for it- must be feeling a little egg-on-face?
And what will we get from the MSM? "Tyres screech as National backs anti-smacking bill in Massive U-turn"? Or "Decent Parents saved from Lives of Crime by JK and co!" ? -
yeah well as it's about key i don't think you'll hear much about u-turns and mayor quimby, more like "victory for common sense" and other assorted cliches.
i agree rob, rich has aquitted herself well on this one while the cavers look like spineless turds.
-
I agree (as a BIll supporter) this is good. The amendment does nothing but note police will excercise their discretion exactly the way the do in every other case.
When you start a clause with "to remove doubt" you don't expect it to do much. Of course, I think the whole new section has much the same effect as a repeal.
Of course, Mr Key says it's a version of National's proposals and now talks about the bill exactly the way Clark and Bradford have been.
Interesting that he's grabbing this excuse to possibly look statemanslike and definitely throwing away a stick to beat labour with all the way to the election.
-
It has been an interesting old ride this. On one hand the opponents did very well framing the bill in their own terms - "anti smacking", but on the other hand the supporters basically managed to force everyone to both think what smacking actually means, and to come out and say publically that they don't condone violence on children.
That has to be worth something.
Oh and the term "loving smack" has to win some sort of award.
-
When you start a clause with "to remove doubt" you don't expect it to do much.
I've seen "to avoid doubt" used in other recent amendments to the Crimes Act. Here is an example:
s307 (4) Threats of harm to people or property
To avoid doubt, the fact that a person engages in any protest, advocacy, or dissent, or engages in any strike, lockout, or other industrial action, is not, by itself, a sufficient basis for inferring that a person has committed an offence against subsection
There are other ways of saying this, and to be honest, i think it must just be a drafting preference exerted by one or more drafters at Parliament. But this is very much a minor example of odd drafting choices. You could spend weeks looking through legislation from the last 10 or so years all the while crying over poorly or at least misleadingly drafted provisions.
-
listening to Key now defending s59 to Michael Laws on Radio Live is certainly one of the funnier conversations on the topic i've heard for a while.
as Lyndon said upthread, Key has traded in his Labour-beating stick for a chance to look statesman-like. well now we will see just how much of a statesman he really is...
-
So far, against the new amendment we have:
Larry Baldock
Phillip Field
Brian TamakiStill waiting to hear from Christine Rankin, Simon Barnett, Bob McCroskey etc.
Judith Collins?
-
Apologies, Brian Tamaki seems to be saying it's a victory. My mistake.
But it is quite fun watching the opponents trying to decide between triumph and outrage.
-
merc,
Mayor Quimby accent...
What we have done here today is for the good of you all. In striving for the good of all we have placed the aspirations of the poeple above the needs of the Mayor, don't expect me to do this a second time... -
merc,
Poeple = poetic people...
-
Brian Tamaki seems to be saying it's a victory.
hmm, a victory for the status quo on the amendment, yes. but then again Brian seems to think he's a bishop so go figure.
i'm waiting for Jim Mora and Gary McCormack's u-turns
-
oh and that magnificently well-informed astute armchair politician Simon Barnett. he has such nice hair
-
merc,
Riddley, you're losing your sense of humour, this is fantastic on so many levels, I luf Bwian in a not so manly way, he's special and we need him. As for Mr Mora, proof that The System works, and Gary, well, proof that we have got over Tall Poppyism, neh?
Post your response…
This topic is closed.