Not Guilty
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Jackie, I'm sure not everyone *is* convinced of DB's guilt...and he served 13 & a bit years(not legal life.)
I'm convinced that he is guilty for some robust pieces of physical evidence that were never rebutted (think washing machine & handprint, and Stephen's blood on DB's shorts & jersey. And some very strange targets, drawn by DB that are illustrated in James McNiesh's book...
I look forward to the time when we have examining magistrates (a la Continental law) as well as a reformed jury system, and - as mentioned before - a third verdict, the Scots "Not Proven."
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We have that in Italy too, you can be aquitted for not having committed the crime or for insufficient proof that you did. Our PM got away with a couple of the latter.
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Sofie - agree entirely about sloppy police work (they've said themselves things would be done differently now). And I especially tautoko your words 'the brain is an interesting thing': DB may very well "not remember" - because if he did, it would destroy him.
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DB may very well "not remember" - because if he did, it would destroy him.
Plus it could have destroyed him on the day, answering a few other questions he is supposed to be able to answer. We humans can be good at going through the motions of what is expected or going into an automatic response and a 111 call has been taught from childhood that it will help. It would appear that the Bain family did things a little differently, so to assume he should have behaved/looked a certain way is the first mistake. This will be the first time since late 1994 (15 years) that he can breathe properly. Hell, the police didn't believe him, what was left of his family didn't believe him, there was noone who believed him. Then a stranger offered help. That's what he had.
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Interesting that his family (what remained of it) didnt believe him eh?
Or that there were no committed friends? -
I guess David Bain could make a career suing media that publishes assertions of his guilt for libel?
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Opinions are one thing: statements another.
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Or that there were no committed friends?
I know one prepared to say in court(and did) but also
Dunedin has a lot of students (Davids age at the time) and the kids I know at uni (or left uni) aren't ever there in holidays so a number of frienships are disjointed. Now family? I know my extended family don't know much about me nor me about them and I talk allsorts or as gramps used to say Licorice. I just think we have alot of mental issues in this country that are often the cause of many crimes and none get addressed appropriately. Until we care, we are stuck with what we got. It saddens me. -
Blink Shabbat...
My sarcasm detector doesn't work on the Lord's Day.
Possibly an Israeli manufactured security device?
Look for the 7 29 at the start of the barcode : )oh... hang on... it's Sunday today isn't it
back to the drawing board then...yrs
Con Sumer
"They call me... Mithra Ed!"
he said hoarsely... -
Thanks for that info Sofie-
I come from a large whanau (and DB's isnt small) and I *know* they'd be for me in event of any evil thing happening.
There is mental illness in my family (depression especially -in all its forms (I am dysthymic.)) I think there is a * huge* increase of awareness of mental illness in ANZ and we're doing rather better than unaware punters might ascertain.
Not perfect, but trying-
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Islander, James McNeish is hardly an independent witness. As I understand it he was friend of Robin B's. Robin's Joe Karam in the battle of the Bain books.
Re the family support for David B. He had some supporters in the wider family. But he might not have been close to the extended family generally, as he was apparently an introverted nerdy young adult, and they were a different generation to him and lived elsewhere much of his life. And someone pointed out to me - and I don't know if this is correct - that there were financial implications of a not guilty plea on the distribution of the estate.
I agree with Sophie. Just because the David B portrayed by the intense media coverage over the last 15 years seems strange, unusual and awkward, that does not mean he was bad. That's why to me the Aspie explanation seems so plausible. With anxiety/sensory overload to explain some of the wierder aspects of his reported social behaviours.
13 years in jail is an awfully long time. It's the time for a person to go from not existing to becoming a teenager. Surely, whatever, David has earned the right for some peace and quiet in his life, and to now be able to make some choices of his own.
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steven c - a very well known reaction to trauma (whether you caused it, were part of it, even happened by it) is mental blockage. Block out of whatever happened.
DB gave equivocal statements to the police. His behaviour with his remaining family - they found weird. Some of his erstwhile friends found his behaviour weird.
I've been in dial-111 situations: everybody behaves differently, but I must say I found the dialogue between the 111 operator & DB - surreal.
But hey! Go for the crime novel!
(Read "A Mask Of Sanity" first!) -
steven c - I've never met DB - I have no opinions about his personality.
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PS, I think I might have an average to interesting crime novel in me yet.
I've been sayin' that about the Watson case for years :)
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About not knowing people, my immediate family are quite open and at the age of 45 I have finally found out why Dad was always going to see a man about a dog. Now I understand why I couldn't go with him. :)
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I look suspect, in an art-house stud monkey sort of way.
Can't wait to meet you Thursday. Get on the bus. :)
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I do wonder if it might be time to rethink how retrials are conducted, jurors are told to ignore what they read and hear in the media. Before the era of the internet and social media outlets, that was probably not such an issue but how could you not be caught up in the hype by the Bain case of 15 years. I don’t have an issue with the right to choose a jury trial for the first trial, but for a retrial why not let it be a judge only trial. Surely, they are the best qualified to make a decision and then let the details of the decision made public. I'm not saying the decision was not right ....just thinking about the system in general.
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Hilary, James McNeish was not a 'friend.' He knew Robin B in the same way I can say I know you (not really at all.)
I have an aspie grand-nephew. You get to know people in the Asperger's circles. In Otago, nobody has picked DB as an aspie - nerdy, yep, but he had a murkier side (check the tattoo bits.)
Frankly, if - *IF* - DB killed his family, he deserves nothing. Nothing at all-
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steven c- nah, I just said they didnt support him.
Blake Monkley- I am so with your statement-
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just thinking about the system in general
That would put the onus on judges further than I believe possible. To hold one person as the only one able to understand puts great pressure on that person and nobody is perfect so it would always be questionable. We have shades of grey therefore black or white would often be debateable. I think to use humans to decipher human behaviour is a fair system.
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Tattoos?
6, some are odd. 7 when I finish one. Now I am timid, before, anything goes. How do tattoos get murkier? Genuine question.
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Yup. Read McNeish.
Sofie - examining magistrates are trained lawyers with (almost always ) a second degree - like most of our coroners i.e trained in law & medecine, or pyschology, or another science or humanities degree.
And I'm sorry, but the jury system used to be '12 of your peers'. It aint, and hasnt been, for decades.
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Does anyone know why the Herald story about the suppressed evidence has disappeared? I can't find it on the Herald site and the link Russell provided yesterday has been disabled.
I also heard that action has been taken against the Sunday TV show over the Bain case, to prevent them airing a story.
But I can't find any word of anything on any of the news sites.
Has the story been shut down?
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Hey! I love tattoos! I have none (because I have a changeable mind & - tatts aint, all that much.) But I have - probably - the best tattoo collection (as in books et al) on the Coast.
DB's tattoo was - it seems- out of character. My copy of "The Mask of Sanity" is elsewhere, so I regret I cannot give exact page references.
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What about the bunch of legal people on the privy council who led to this retrial? They obviously saw some flaws in the case.
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