Indiana Jonesing
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You mean like so hated that a massive 43% of Democrats still prefer her
You don't pick your vice-president to appeal to your core base. Hilary's sky-high negatives have stayed pretty steady within the overall population of US voters - almost half the country hates her and simply will not vote for her ever.
That didn't mean she couldn't win as a presidential candidate - as George W proved, all you need is a tiny margin in the right states - but makes her useless as a vp.
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makes her useless as a vp.
Makes her useless as a VP candidate (if you're looking to use the running mate to shore up support).
It doesn't at all impact on her qualities as VP.
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But you're not serious are you? Not even White Power will say that in front of the media... that's why it's called politics.
Perfectly serious, I prefer my obnoxious bigot (or person who knows better but doesn't really care) straight up, no chaser.
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Did we notice talk of a Michigan deal?
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also, from Lyndon's link:
John Edwards's campaign manager has just endorsed Obama, and Edwards himself -- the last challenger to drop out of the race and an important voice -- is appearing on "The Today Show" early tomorrow morning, possibly to finally pick a side.
Edwards has remained studiously quiet since dropping out himself. He's obviously been aware that his chances on being VP depended on endorsing neither candidate until it's over. So if he endorses Obama tomorrow then it's over.
Clinton better grab the VP nomination quick, because tomorrow there may be a chorus suggesting good ol' Edwards. They make the perfect __Ebony & Ivory __ticket. (First photo op: a $12 haircut)
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that's why it's called politics.
And on further reflection, I'm getting increasingly pissed off at the Chinatown cop-out every damn time a politician acts like a leaky douche bag. "It's just politics", shrug shoulders, rinse and repeat is just too damn cynical and glib; it implies that 'politics' is an unpleasant, but unavoidable, natural phenomena like earthquakes or typhoons. Balls. Politics is the interaction of human beings, and if you want to have any influence over my life I'd like to see some signs that you're not an utter moral and ethical cretin with Tourettes.
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Did we notice talk of a Michigan deal?
The angry, delusional take on a Michigan compromise on the part of the Clinton diehards at TalkLeft is ... weird.
To accuse Obama of "vote stealing" when both candidates agreed the primary there wouldn't count -- but Hillary stayed on the ballot -- you've got to be pretty far out there.
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Elsewhere, I wouldn't be surpirsed if you've not heard anything about this nutjob in a dog collar. Sorry, but you've to ask whether the double standard here is as simple as black and white, and why the GOP and right-wing blogisphere who went nuclear over Jeremiah Wright aren't being called out by the MSM.
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the Clinton diehards
They're certainly dieing hard. Even though I don't want it to be the case, I think it really is game over for Senator Clinton now. On the other hand, I see no reason why she shouldn't fight to the wire. Isn't that what a male candidate would do? And be lauded for it?
I would however, prefer that she didn't fight dirty.
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To accuse Obama of "vote stealing" when both candidates agreed the primary there wouldn't count -- but Hillary stayed on the ballot -- you've got to be pretty far out there.
And being pretty sure that most of Talk Left's readers are absolutely convinced Bush only became president via massive and systemic fraud, intimidation and outright corruption you'd think "vote stealing" are not words that would be thrown around lightly.
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Isn't that what a male candidate would do? And be lauded for it?
No.
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On the other hand, I see no reason why she shouldn't fight to the wire. Isn't that what a male candidate would do? And be lauded for it?
That's any easy one - how many of the (male) GOP candidates are still scrapping it out against McCain?
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__On the other hand, I see no reason why she shouldn't fight to the wire. Isn't that what a male candidate would do? And be lauded for it?__
That's any easy one - how many of the (male) GOP candidates are still scrapping it out against McCain?
Quite. But why bring gender into it at all, Deborah? How is it even relevant to the argument?
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Got to go get the kids from school... then do the after-school runaround, but I will come up with an answer for that, Russell.
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Quite. But why bring gender into it at all, Deborah? How is it even relevant to the argument?
Could I so a simple flip-test here, does Deborah or anyone else think that if situations were reversed and we were talking about McCain - Romney instead of Obama-Clinton, and the GOP was heading towards a replay of '76 (where the fight between Reagan and Gerald Ford was rough, tight and went all the way to the convention floor), that the dynamic would really be much different.
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It's the sort of analysis here, here, and especially here that I think highlights that it's a gender issue. NB - not necessarily solely a gender issue, but I think that the sort of unprecedented "get out" campaign Clinton has been subjected to is at least amendable to a gender analysis, though personally I think the stronger claim is viable i.e. that the "get out" campaign is fuelled by misogyny.
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The angry, delusional take on a Michigan compromise on the part of the Clinton diehards at TalkLeft is ... weird.
To accuse Obama of "vote stealing" when both candidates agreed the primary there wouldn't count -- but Hillary stayed on the ballot -- you've got to be pretty far out there.
I don't think you understand their argument - they are saying that any deal that has Obama get uncommited votes that were from the supporters of Edwards is a bit of a vote steal.
You might be a bit more careful about calling anyone at TalkLeft "Clinton diehards" - you might be a bit surprisd at who some of them support. Not everyone feels the need to indicate their support for Obama by rabid attacks on Hillary.
I think the stronger claim is viable i.e. that the "get out" campaign is fuelled by misogyny.
Andrew Sullivan, Mathew Yglesias, Michael Tomasky.......the list of males that have demonised so irrationally is a long one. Their venom is quite disturbing.
...it would have been great to see the mad patriarchs in places like Afghanistan forced to deal with that most perfidious of creatures, a woman.
guess which candidate is the most popular in Pakistan according to a recent Pew poll - Hillary.
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I rarely read him on politics, because his style is a bit like being trapped in a phone booth with a hyper-active, hyper-articulate, hyper-obsessive drunk
Rob, thats the most wonderful characterisation of Hitchens
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Now that the end-game in this fascinating contest seems to be clear (he says cautiously), I've got to say that I'm missing it already.
Hope the main event is as good.
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WH,
Whether you agree with it or not, Clinton's argument is that she is more electable on an electoral college basis notwithstanding Obama's delegate lead. I couldn't give a toss about Obama's delegate lead. I want the candidate who is going to beat McCain, whoever that may be.
As an unidentified Clinton strategist was quoted as saying, Hillary lost the race for the nomination in February. The 'she can't win' narrative really hurt her, the exclusion of Florida probably finished her off (weird shades of 2000 IMO). Until quite recently, Obama ran the better campaign. His zeitgeist candidacy and his status as favourite among the liberal base of the party propelled him to a number of important primary and caucus wins. It would be foolish to ignore his popularity among African Americans, a key Democratic constituency that makes up approcimately 13% of the total US population. Clinton has a point, IMO. I hope the increased turnout Obama represents will be a net plus, but who really knows.
I'm tired of arguing about this. I try to remember that I like Obama, and that its the comments of his supporters that I tend to have issues with. At some point that party is going to have to come together around Obama, and there is no point digging trenches now that will only need to be filled in later. If Obama is going to have this nomination, I just want him to win. But he had better not f*ck this up.
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I'm tired of arguing about this. I try to remember that I like Obama, and that its the comments of his supporters that I tend to have issues with.
that is so what I feel.
Whether you agree with it or not, Clinton's argument is that she is more electable on an electoral college basis notwithstanding Obama's delegate lead.
That's the bottom line and it's been true - uptil the last week. Clinton has been more electable, she has been the one who would beat McCain. But Obama has moved ahead of McCain - not as much as Clinton, but enough to win, theoretically.
But it's still a tenuous advantage and Gallup is comparing 2008 with Obama to Kerry in 2004 in terms of voting patterns. Great. The Dems are going to have to stitch together a negotiated settlement to this campaign to ensure the current demographic support divide gets stitched back together. I think Obama understands this. He's been much more gracious to Hillary and her supporters than many of his internet fans.
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Andrew Sullivan, Mathew Yglesias, Michael Tomasky.......the list of males that have demonised so irrationally is a long one. Their venom is quite disturbing..
And don't forget women who critiicise Hillary Clinton are gender traitors, Neil. That's what happens when you're internalised all that misogyny and fuck over other women to defend your status within the patriarchal power structure.
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Great. The Dems are going to have to stitch together a negotiated settlement to this campaign to ensure the current demographic support divide gets stitched back together. I think Obama understands this. He's been much more gracious to Hillary and her supporters than many of his internet fans.
Well, I'm sorry Neil but I feel no need to be gracious towards either McCain or Clinton who've been far too tolerant towards not very subtly coded appeals to racism, anti-Muslim hysteria and class prejudice from their proxies. Nor am I impressed by the way they've been happy to use Jeremiah Wright as an offensive weapon against Obama, while they've gotten a near total pass for their own associations with clerical whack jobs.
And you know what makes it so much worse -- I don't believe for a moment that John McCain or Hillary Clinton are bigots, they're just willing to pander their arses off for a poll point. I made that mistake with Bush, and am not willing to do it again. And if that makes me a hysterical misogynist or terrorist-cudding America-hater in the eyes of some, I'll just put that in the bulging 'don't give the proverbial rat's rectum' file.
If that makes me a misogynist, Deborah and Neil - fine.
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And don't forget women who critiicise Hillary Clinton are gender traitors, Neil.
And my oath aren't there a lot of them. Most of whom start out with "I used to support Hillary, but ..."
"I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on ... Sen. Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, ... whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."
"There's a pattern emerging here," ~ Hillary Clinton.
The audio of this USA TODAY quote was played on The Daily Show tonite on C4. It was even more damning when you actually hear it.
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Andrew Sullivan, Mathew Yglesias, Michael Tomasky.......the list of males that have demonised so irrationally is a long one. Their venom is quite disturbing..
Pft. Big Media Matt? Sully? That's not venom. This is venom
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