Hard News: Those were different times ...
184 Responses
First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 … 8 Newer→ Last
-
Simon Grigg, in reply to
Except, perhaps, where that brilliance has been eclipsed and bedazzled by things imperially American.
You could argue that working that out was part of what they did well - for right or wrong. When the Australia aligned themselves with the US they did so in the clear knowledge that the USA was in the ascendant.
A failure of the Howard government was the inability to deal with the fact that this had changed. It's still a mystery to McCully.
For all that though, the inter-relationships he and successive Australian governments have worked out in Asia and especially SEA have been successful and gained them huge mana that we lack. They are closer physically but the years of work has really given them a leg up.
That said, I'd argue that we have done better in the South Pacific in recent years.
-
Simon Grigg, in reply to
I still do feel a strong affinity for parts of the culture.
Same.
However, I was also bought back to earth with a resounding cultural bang when I moved there. Large parts of what I thought would resonate with me made me cringe.
-
Sacha, in reply to
It's still a mystery to McCully
His ongoing dry humping and craving a pat on the head from big daddy is embarrassing to behold.
-
Joe Wylie, in reply to
A failure of the Howard government was the inability to deal with the fact that this had changed.
Definitely. Perhaps the most rapid about-face of the Howard era was his hand-on-heart vision of Australia as regional 'deputy' to the US. Once his minders pointed out the implications the refrain instantly switched to 'Mama take this badge offa me'.
I find it interesting how little NZ seems to have gained from the independent foreign policy of the 80s. In retrospect, no nukes seems a convenient distraction for the left while 'their' party pursued policies that were vastly more Reaganite than the overtly pro-US Hawke would ever have contemplated. Perhaps it's significant that the main perpetrator awarded himself a made-under-license 'British' knighthood.
-
Russell Brown, in reply to
However, I was also bought back to earth with a resounding cultural bang when I moved there. Large parts of what I thought would resonate with me made me cringe.
Same. It was a big thing realising I wasn't from there, I was of the Pacific.
-
Simon Grigg, in reply to
I find it interesting how little NZ seems to have gained from the independent foreign policy of the 80s.
It was briefly exciting there wasn't it. For a moment we had an opinion.
In a way I prefer the current government's foreign stance to the last. We know - and they are quite obliviously open about the fact - that they wake up daily in a world that passed a decade or more ago.
Labour instead found it expedient to pretend they didn't but still sent the troops, aircraft and SAS.
-
Simon Grigg, in reply to
It was a big thing realising I wasn't from there, I was of the Pacific.
But good, huh?!
-
To be fair on England, I have never really felt affinity for any of Europe. It's not my fault that my ancestors came from there, and they did what they could to change that.
-
Robyn Gallagher, in reply to
The New Zild thing is interesting, isn’t it? I can still remember Angela D’Audney reading the news and pronouncing the days of the week “Wednesdee, Thursdee” etc. Very posh.
From the 1966 Encyclopaedia of New Zealand:
Both in New Zealand and in Australia the names of the days, also holiday, and yesterday are given the full sound of -day instead of the standard English Mondi, etc. This is not a relic of traditional usage, but a pedantic following of the spelling.
Also of interest is the Faults in Speech entry. I bet y'all didn't know that it's 'wrong' to pronounce ate as 'ayt' instead of the correct 'ett'. We once would have all sounded like Stephen Fry.
-
Robyn Gallagher, in reply to
But returning to accents, the regional accent differences in the UK absolutely fascinated me. Such a tiny country, and such huge variations in language. I’m sure Jen could shed light, but I still can’t really get my head around why the differences are so huge.
It's a small country, but it's important to remember that people didn't used to move around much. They'd likely stay in the same area their whole lives. Combine that with England's history of invaders and visitors, and you get a variety of accents that match English's rich and varied vocabulary: words from everywhere, pronunciations from everywhere.
-
Does New Zealand still get most of its immigrants from the UK? I can't find any information on that.
-
Jackie Clark, in reply to
Here you go, Simon
-
Simon Grigg, in reply to
Thanks Jackie. Wow that is a terrifying low level of immigration.
-
bmk, in reply to
Another overwhelmingly common one is forte , in fact this one is so common that I deliberately mispronounce it as otherwise people will think I am the one making the mistake.
-
Paul Williams, in reply to
Same. It was a big thing realising I wasn’t from there, I was of the Pacific.
On a slightly different note, while still living in NZ, I attended a conference in Adelaide which include a session for “Island nations” which, when me and another kiwi attended, prompted considerable surprise amongst our Australian hosts.
Thanks Jackie. Wow that is a terrifying low level of immigration.
Yeah, and I’m guessing the gross in-flow is much higher but is offset by the floods of kiwis heading to Australia… I suspect this will get worse too; Qld’s recovery will compete with Christchurch for trade and related workers.
-
“It was a big thing realising I wasn’t from there, I was of the Pacific.”
But good, huh?!
Yeah, really good. Driving round Mangere this morning made my heart sing. A sea of red flags flutter from cars and buildings (Samoan and Tongan) in anticipation of the rugby, and being a Sunday morning, there are plenty of crisp whites. I’m thinking of emailing the Herald photo-editor – this colourful outpouring deserves documentation.
And then I logged on to Facebook and saw photos from my beautiful Samoan (and Scottish) Cousin’s 21st. It brought things home even further.
There’s also the Pacific Island Forum in Auckland this week, something that should (G)arner attention, but won’t. We live profoundly disconnected from the geopolitical context of our region, and to greater and lesser extents from our cultural neighbours too.
I also disagree with Joe’s comments about Australia. That’s the simple version, but the reality is (in my mind) far more complex. Australia’s often reduced to simple caricatures, which have some basis in fact, but which strip away the tensions and the richness that lies in Australia’s culture. It’s by no means black and white (except, of course, when it is).
-
Hilary Stace, in reply to
My father spoke like that and not sure whether it came from his family background or the English masters at Christ College. My mother also referred to the 'U' and 'Non U' words she had learnt as a child that one had to remember at all times. They included 'sweet' instead of 'lolly', 'lavatory' instead of 'toilet' and 'serviette' instead of 'napkin' (actually I might have that last one around the wrong way). It went with the right way to pour tea (whether milk or tea went in first I can't remember), drinking tea with your little finger extended, and knowing the correct cutlery to use with each course starting with the outer going in, and using butter knives to transfer butter to the side of your plate where it was then transferred by the correct knife to your food. So many unspoken rules that betrayed your class origins. These were families that had been in NZ for generations but still talked about 'home'.
-
Sacha, in reply to
Wow that is a terrifying low level of immigration
Your membership of Winston First is revoked
-
Sacha, in reply to
using butter knives to transfer butter to the side of your plate
so that's what those things are for
-
Wow that is a terrifying low level of immigration
There's actually quite a high level of immigration. It's just matched on the other side by emigration.
There were 84,600 PLT arrivals in the July 2011 year, up 3 percent from the July 2010 year.
There were 81,800 PLT departures, up 23 percent.
The resulting net gain of migrants was 2,900 in the July 2011 year, compared with 15,200
in the July 2010 year. The latest figure is the lowest annual net gain since the October 2001 year
(1,700). The change between 2010 and 2011 was mainly due to more departures to Australia.Source, Stats NZ.
-
Joe Wylie, in reply to
Australia’s often reduced to simple caricatures, which have some basis in fact, but which strip away the tensions and the richness that lies in Australia’s culture. It’s by no means black and white (except, of course, when it is).
Having spent close to two decades of my adult life there I can only agree. I'd assumed that the shrimp on the barbie posturing had died when Hawkie lost his mojo, but suddenly there was Steve Irwin. Most Australians weren't aware of him until his TV persona was parodied on South Park ("I shove me thumb up his butthole, really piss him off"). Only those with cable access to the US shopping channel knew who was having the piss taken out of them.
A bit disappointing that he wasn't laughed off Australian TV once he went mainstream. Still, nice that he's doing his bit to save whales in the afterlife.
-
Paul Williams, in reply to
Thanks George, I was being lazy and appreciate your sourcing the data.
I also agree with you comments re Australia, I agree there's some stereotypical traits which are often in evidence but I live in Petersham, richness for me means the Portuguese who've established a large community, nearby Marrickville there's many Greeks and Vietnamese... around the corner in Leichhardt where you can easily find yourself one of the few English language speakers in many cafes.
-
nearby Marrickville there’s many Greeks and Vietnamese… around the corner in Leichhardt where you can easily find yourself one of the few English language speakers in many cafes.
I remember the first time a Lebanese friend described me as 'Anglo'. I was a little taken aback, unsure what it meant in context. Pakeha made sense to me, I identified with it. It took a while to feel comfortable with it, and see that it marked me out from other groups who to varying degrees had not yet been assimilated into the idea of whiteness. It takes on a different meaning in New Zealand. Also, for quite a while I had an El Salvadorian girlfriend who loved to take the piss out of me - to be fair, the mores of my immediate and extended family are more class and culture bound than most, and I'm a ripe target.
The strong embrace of biculturalism here,* driven in part by a document between the Crown and the Tangata Whenua but going beyond that, has greatly enriched New Zealand. But it has also obscured the possibilities of multiculturalism - celebrating all cultures and identities. It seems hard to think beyond a simple duality, for fear of losing what has been built up in the face of sustained attacks. We'll get there, someday.
*To the extent that this embrace actually happens. In some places genuine, in other places token, and in others not at all.
-
Simon Grigg, in reply to
There's actually quite a high level of immigration.
It was late at night and I didn't think those figures through, so cheers George.
I'd be interested to know what the flow through figures are - how many last a year or two then head over to the Western Island? A few I'd think.
That said, it's clear we are replacing a portion of people born in New Zealand with immigrants. The language will mutate further. I have a soft spot for the English spoken by ethnic Chinese in places like Singapore and Hong Kong where it is a first language (along with whichever version of the myriad of languages we like to call Chinese their family speak) and I'm hearing that more and more in New Zealand.
I'm not talking the mid-Pacific twang the Asian media use, but the defined, precise, almost staccato phrasing you hear on the subway and in the streets. It's little wonder we Australasians, with our lazy flow, can be very hard to understand.
These immigrants also bring with them dual - or more - first language abilities, one of which may or may not be English. They are comfortable existing in several tongues simultaneously, which has to influence the language being spoken in New Zealand.
-
Actually, just looking at those figures; that’s about 2% arriving annually, and 2% leaving. There certainly is some overlap between the two figures – I met a guy in Melbourne who’d been an immigrant, lived on my street in Mangere, and then shifted. But assuming little, for simplicity’s sake, then in a decade or so 20% of the population will be entirely new. Now, that probably won’t happen, but I don’t think New Zealanders realise just how dynamic their country is, right now. (It’s probably for the best, actually. The screaming hordes of Yourview Heights should accept their fate, rather than contest it.)
it’s clear we are replacing a portion of people born in New Zealand with immigrants. The language will mutate further. I have a soft spot for the English spoken by ethnic Chinese in places like Singapore and Hong Kong where it is a first language (along with whichever version of the myriad of languages we like to call Chinese their family speak) and I’m hearing that more and more in New Zealand.
Nu Zihlindlish, lah? Except it will have a slight Indian lilt, I’m sure.
Post your response…
This topic is closed.